The problem is that many trainers lack decent avionics. No RWR, no ECM, no chaff and flare dispensers, no FLIR, no laser targeting device, no laser tracker and no radar.

If you give a trainer all this goodies, it becomes just as expensive as a normal fighter, which also usually gives you more range, more speed and more payload.

From all those mentionend the A-50, the YAK-130 and th M311 would probably make the best fighter aircraft.

Glad to see so many people listing the Phantom.

I guess I’m not the only one who appreciates its different looks.

To me it just looks like a war machine designed to bring hell on the enemy. The F-16 by contrast looks like a toy to me. It’s a good looking airplane, but it just doesn’t have the same menacing look that the Phantom does.

Well that is logical, A F-4 says : I´m gonna kill you now – you sorry SoFaB.

a F-16 says : I´m gonna drop a bomb now, that might hurt. Be carefull out there. 😀

1. F-8 Crusader
2. F-4 Phantom II
3. F-104 Starfighter
4. SU-15
5. Mirage III
6. British Lightning
7. J-8
8. SU-27
9. F-15 Eagle
10. MiG-21 F

Agreed. I think if the European fighter makers had a chance to go back and redesign the Typhoon or Rafale, they would have incorporated a greater degree of stealth in their designs.

Would they ?

It would make the planes even more expensive and more offensive.

well i don’t see where he eurostuff will do something well, being a heavy plane with 9.7t at start the ej200 was just enough to push the plane in the air, now that it’s closer to 12t ej200 need 25kN to get back his earlier fitness, and seeing that consortium will not provide more money on a project over budget, dont see great issues…

the strike capacities will not comes before 2010, and with electronics suite is same class than F16 b60 or Mirage 2000-9, it’s closer to 4th generation than 5th, only the composites materials get something new, so about AESA i don’t see it in near futur, no need for a plane that all partners ares eagers to cut than going through!

to export, big problems came from the crash, a “new” bird crashing without sharp causes isn’t very trustable, and it’s ugliest plane who will fly in 21th century!

a bit like the F22, eurofighter is a relic of cold war, and far to fullfill ist’s so called “multi role” missions in near futur!

an expensive farce, in shadowed futur!

12t is far off. Series production single seaters are lighter. I can not disclose the actual number however.

AESA is a good thing, but it is still a new technique, while CAPTOR is the best of the old style radars. It can do many tricks an AESA can do. Surely inferior to the APG-77 in the F-22 simply because it is smaller and less powerfull but closely matched to the AESA APG-79 in the SH or the AESA in the F-16E/F.

The integrated defense suite however is probably only matched by the F-22. The radar detection and range finding capabilities are said to be better then current dedicated SEAD aircraft.

Airframe-wise it falls at least a half generation behind the US concepts but electronically it will be every bit as good.

It is said that the machine is a tiny bit *lazier* and less agile than desired, but surely the EJ200 have much reserve in thrust increase, so this might be improved gradually with future engine blocks.

Now that is new to me. Ever ypilot I spoke loved the extremely agile airframe and the powerful lengines.