127TH KNIGHTSI don’t know about that, don’t you guys have a very large Turkish/Muslim minority? That could mean soem kind of confrontation with Turkey if that minority ever decides to tear away a part of your land like in kosovo. For taht reason Bulgaria should not be caught without a decent fighter force.
Hey Miroslav,
How comes that you see Turkish/Muslim plots everywhere my friend? Are you still locked into the battle of Kosovo six hundred years ago?
You just described every self-respecting Serb world-wide lika!
127TH KNIGHTSI don’t know about that, don’t you guys have a very large Turkish/Muslim minority? That could mean soem kind of confrontation with Turkey if that minority ever decides to tear away a part of your land like in kosovo. For taht reason Bulgaria should not be caught without a decent fighter force.
I think that any confrontation between Bulgaria and Turkey would quickly involve other balkan nations into the frey. Greece’s airforce/navy with Bulgaria/Serbia armies would be more than a match for turkey. That’d be the end of islam in europe. Well…almost.
127TH KNIGHTSSerbia Sells Its Sole Aircraft Producer Utva Aircraft Industry
The Republic of Serbia Privatization Agency (Agencija za Privatizaciju), the central operative institution responsible for conducting the process of privatization in Serbia, has offered for sale the Limited Liability Company UTVA Aircraft Industry (Drustvo sa ogranicenom odgovornoscu UTVA Avio Industrija), a company that located in the town of Pancevo is in fact the sole aircraft production company in the Republic of Serbia. Offered for sale on a second public auction that is scheduled to take place in Belgrade on October 26th, 2006, are 88,863% (which is equal to 14.332.591 Euro) of the entire estimated capital value of UTVA Aircraft Industry. According to the official public invitation announced by the Privatization Agency, the starting auction price of UTVA Aircraft Industry will be 2.293.214 Euro and the potential buyer will need to accept the obligation to invest in UTVA at last 686.033 Euro. The UTVA auction sale package, apart from 252 employees, consists the following: production hall for the element manufacture with product control, plants for assembly and final assembly, hall of special process for alloys and steel with water waste filtering, machine and equipment maintenance hall, storage house of production materials with sawmills, restaurants and administrative buildings all this with total area of 77.400 square meters – as well as construction land with total area of 481.683 square meters.
The incoming auction sale of UTVA will be in fact Privatization Agency second try to sell the company since the privatization initiative has officially started one year ago, on September 15th, 2005. The first auction took place on September 14th, 2006, and has been unsuccessful due to the fact that neither of the companies that have previously shown interest in UTVA has attended the auction sale. According to UTVA general manager Tomislav Bjelogrlic, quoted by Serbian newspaper Pancevac, interested for UTVA were at last two companies – Los Angeles based The Marvin Group and Israeli company Sakra. Commenting the failure of the first auction sale, Bjelogrlic also told Pancevac that one shell understand every potential investor who apart from paying the auction-established price of UTVA will also need the accept the challenge to fix the accumulated debts of over 5 million Euro as well as to invest in new equipment and technology. According to officially published 2004 financial balance, UTVA Aircraft Industry total business revenues of 793.732 Euro have faced total business expenses of 1.863.990 Euro. The negative trend has continued in 2005 when total business revenues of 375.348 Euro were inappropriately balanced by total business expenses of 1.301.977 Euro.
What is today known as UTVA was established in the town of Zemun on June 5th, 1937. What has started as a cooperative for production of sport gliders over the years transformed into full-size aircraft producer that in the time of former Yugoslavia has designed and produced the well-known UTVA family of sport and utility planes and was also involved in the serial production of components for Yugoslav/Romanian-designed J-22/IAR-93 twin-jet ground attack and reconnaissance aircraft as well as for Yugoslav-designed G-4 Super Galeb advanced trainer and light attack aircraft. The last serious project for UTVA was the designing and prototype production of Lasta piston-powered basic and advanced trainer that never went into serial production.
The promising bright future of UTVA was shadowed by the disintegration of Yugoslavia and its aviation industry at the beginning of 1990s. Faced with the new reality of being located in country were ambitions to produce new planes does not enjoyed anymore the strong financial support of the state, UTVA in fight for survival has tried to concentrate its efforts on the civilian market while working at the same time on developing the G-4M modernized version of Super Galeb and family of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). Nothing of this resulted with restoring of once very prosperous aircraft production company. The last and most serious shock for UTVA were the NATO air strikes of 1999 when 40% of the factory was destroyed, including the assembly hall, metal treatment plant and paint shop. According to officially published Government documents, the overall UTVA damage as a result of NATO bombardments was estimated to 68 million US dollars. Since 1999, some of the machinery and tooling has been replaced and the company succeeded in securing production of machined parts and special tooling for Belgium’s SABCA and Sonaca SA as well as for DF Helicopters from Italy.
Well this will be interesting…
127TH KNIGHTSCroatia is actually withdrawing their mi-24 from service and selling them,they will keep only one mi-24 for museum.
The number of mi-171 is more like ~11.
Really? There was an article on airserbia.com not too long ago and I thought the number was larger??? I can’t find the article on their website and longer.
127TH KNIGHTSSerbian troops in Lebanon
1 September 2006 | 11:51 | Source: FoNet
BELGRADE — Serbian soldiers will take part in the peace missions in Lebanon and Afghanistan, the government has decided.The Defense Ministry has been given the task of determining the exact cost and details of the Lebanon mission. The Serbian Army medical corps soldiers are to be sent to Lebanon, while three officers are slated to travel to Afghanistan.
A lieutenant and a captain will join a unit securing the Kabul airport parameter, while the third officer will join a Belgian logistics unit.
This came in yesterday. I posted this in response to Kobra’s statement about the UN. I just thought it was relevant.
They could also use some of the AN-26s later on that they have now that they use for Spares for Inetnational Missions.
However. I don’t think that Serbia will be sending a company anytime soon. It only needs two good sized transports to move its troops and equipment back and forth. That, or just piggyback on another country’s transport. i.e. czech rep., slovakia, hungary, poland, etc.
also does anyone know if the MI-24s and MI-17s have been sold id rather wonted them to be overhauled or upgraded a bit so they could be used in night operations, since our neighbouring countries have better helicopter fleets like macodania with 12 mi-24s and Croatia with there Mi-171’s that they are getting soon also could someone tell me what happend to the F-117 Stelath Plane wreakage i heard it was sent to Russia if it was what did Serbia get out of it.
Croatia actually signed a deal with Russia not too long ago to get 17 Mi-171sh helicopters and a small number of mi-24 helicopters.
Now a few questions about the post we all read. What is the little clear globe in front of the cockpit on the mig-29ub? and what variant of the mi-24 and mi-17 does the serbian army fly? Why doesn’t serbia send the MI helicopters to ATE of South AFrica?
127TH KNIGHTSI thought the current monthly highlighted that question? I’m not sure whether its this months or last…but the fixed wing aircraft all go back to serbia and some helos stay in podgorica. Montenegro will have a helicopter airforce.
127TH KNIGHTSONLY 100 SERBIAN AIRFORCE AIRCRAFT OPERATIONAL – COMMANDER
30.7.2006 16:52 BELGRADE, (Tanjug) – Serbian airforce and anti-aircraft defense commander Col. Dragan Katanic said that out of the existing 250 aircraft, only about 100 are operational, and added that MIG 29 craft will not be overhauled this year.
In Serbian:
OD 250 VOJNIH AVIONA, U UPOTREBI OKO 100
30.7.2006 15:09 BEOGRAD (Tanjug) – Komandant vazuduhoplovnih snaga i protivvazduhoplovne odbrane pukovnik Dragan Katanić izjavio je da je od 250 vojnih vazduhoplova, u operativnoj upotrebi samo oko 100, dodavši da do kraja godine neće biti remontovani avioni MIG-29.
Remontovanje jednog dvoseda i četiri jednoseda MIG-29 koštalo bi oko 25 do 26 miliona dolara, rekao je Katanić u intervjuu ”Večernjim novostima”, i ocenio da je to ipak jeftinije nego da se nekoj drugoj zemlji prepusti čuvanje našeg neba.
Apparently he didn’t get the memo that it was only 10 million euros eh?
127TH KNIGHTS:diablo:
127TH KNIGHTSBecause you’ve got thousands of domestic workers and dozens of domestic companies hoping to God that they’ll get an order from the Serbian military. You can’t hang your arms industry out to dry like that.
127TH KNIGHTSI think you overestimate the market.
Many of those countries already have chosen solutions for advanced trainers:
I was thinking of the G-4M being used as more than an advanced trainer. With the right modifications, it could be used as a dedicated night ground attack platform. A poor man’s f-16.
Many of the countries that I mentioned I mentioned for arguments sake. There are 178 countries registered with the UN and a pluthera of organizations that wouldn’t mind having an advanced trainer/ground attack aircraft.
127TH KNIGHTSThat will cost a lot too run and SU-30s could cost more then grippens plus SU-30 is a long range interceptor.
The Su-30MK variant has a range of 3,000 km…and the Gripens is reportedly around 2500-2900 km. I don’t understand the rational of hey, this aircraft has a 100-400 km longer range than the other, so that makes it inoperable for our airspace. This isn’t an attack on Kobra, but I’ve heard this argument too many times and I still don’t understand its validity. By the way, here’s an article about the joining of the special forces units. Somebody brought it up not too long ago.
B92 News Politics Security
Special units to unite
16 July 2006 | 23:06 | Source: B92
BELGRADE — The Serbian military has decided to unite all of its special units into one brigade.Instead of the Cobras and other special units, starting September, there will only be one which will be called the Special Brigade.
The Special Brigade will have a thousand members and will be stationed in Niš and Pančevo.
The Serbian Military stated that the one brigade will be able to take care of all of the military’s needs and is financially possible as well.
“This is a reality and it is rational because fewer funds will be needed to take care of our tasks effectively. In this sense, we have decided to unite the already existing special units and to have a small command and logistics sector so that we can increase the quantity and quality of the fighting sector of the unit.” Aleksandar Živković, deputy commander of the operative forces of the Serbian Military, said.
Even though most military analysts support the decision, many think that the military could choose a better solution than centralisation.
“Since they have already chosen this solution, I think that this is a good moment for the nation to show how prepared it is to fulfil its definition of the defence strategy and show how ready they are in the fight against terrorism and to secure Serbia, money must be invested for equipment and the training of this unit,” military analyst Aleksandar Radić said.
With this new formation of the Special Brigade, the Cobras will no longer exist. Members of this unit were often mentioned in a negative context, while many military experts openly questioned the need for such a unit.
“The change in relations towards the Cobras is completely justified because in the last several years they had a unit that was seen as being too close to some important politicians and having too much power and caused several unwanted scandals.” Radić said.
127TH KNIGHTSSorry gents…but I still think that Su-30MK variants would be the most economical and most logistically sound. We only need 16-24 of them to effectively control our own airspace and a few select countries in case of a war (God Forbid). But I think that an eventual procurement of these aircraft are inevitable and that it will be done prior to 2015.
As for the G-4M being built and sold to Libya…fantastic idea. That would be very ideal and is a very plausible situation. Morocco, Tunisia, Syria, Iraq, Armenia, Algeria, Egypt, Venezuela, Argentina, Brazil, Chile… All of these countries are also extremely valuable and appealing markets. The North African countries would find it beneficial at the least to enter into a developmental program with Serbia or Romania. I think that the plane itself could be marketed with an inclusion of Israeli information and communication equipment or at least built for the SAF that way.
I’d be interested to see if a domestic producer or new company could build or design a transport aircraft. I never thought that we needed to outsource for this field, but it was always felt necessary by the higher ups. Before World War II, local aircraft producers had plans for medium bombers. Why can’t we make a transport plane? or 12? or 30?
Rotary wing aircraft should be purchased with care. The transport role should go to the Mi-17 (SH, TV, V-5, or 172…I don’t know which would be best suited for our purposes) or the Ka-60 variants. We need 30 to 40 total for the transport role, but it’d probably be about 25-30 that would be purchased (total, not at once but staggered).
As for assault helicopters, the gazelles are doing fine and are surprisingly in good condition and undergo regular maintenance and upgrades. Don’t ask me how, but somebody is doing their job over there. If a cornerstone of heavy assualt helicopters were to be purchased though, I’d support the Mi-24 MK III Superhind variant from South Africa’s ATE. 6-12 of these beasts armed with Vikhr/Ataka missiles with a new night and upgraded communications capability could slow down any offensive units that find themselves on the wrong side of the border, not to mention any terrorist units that are holed up in a house somewhere.
SAM and radar units should continue being upgraded with domestic programs. I’d like to see an active Sa-15 regiment (supposedly there was/is a battery from 99′ to today) in the integrated defense system. The goal would be to eventually replace all of the Kubs with the Buks and move the Kubs to a support or filler role. I’d also like to see a reorganization of the AD where ALL SAM units are under their control. Sa-2/3 all need to be replaced with upgraded Kubs and those units need to be slimmed down to about 60 launchers. So in the end there would be about 30 Buks and 60 upgraded domestic Kubs (IN THE END), instead of the 72 or so Kub launchers and only God knows how many goa launchers. The Sa-9/13’s need to be upgraded or switched out with the Tangusta (obviously not gonna happen), so in the mean time the Sa-2/3 upgrades should be given the army defense role.
Pretty much everything I said except for the Fighter aircraft is plausible. I just don’t know what the hell we’re gonna do about that gap. Or what we can do for that matter. :confused: Oh well, nobody’s barn burns all night.
127TH KNIGHTSSo I did some research and the really cool looking ones were developed overseas in the US, UK, or France. Did we develop any under license. I saw that the cluster munitions first began being used in 1984 and were being used by the USAF in 1986. So how many could we have got in 5 years?
127TH KNIGHTSCan anyone name for me the weapons laid out in front of the Orao and Galeb aircraft? From left to right would be nice. I think that’s a maljutka in the middle, and a maverick on the far left, but that 2nd to left bomb looks very interesting. By the way, I wish they would have at least painted some kind of camo scheme on those aircraft for these photos. They could have att least pretended that our airforce isn’t in the sh*tter right now. Maybe some SAM units behind the aircraft or in the grassy areas. Some kind of show of force would have been nice. Why do we as Serbs do everything backwards?
127TH KNIGHTSIs the mig 29 only on display or what is it there for. And what kind of display is it.
I dunno…I’m looking at it and it would seem that its armed and possibly operational. I mean…It had to taxi itself there. Unless they just drug it by way of those little land-tugboat things.
Sign In
