I’ve said it for years, and I’ll say it again…
Varyag (or whatever her PLAN name will be) is a training carrier… not a combat ship.
1. She is training China’s naval engineers in how to design & build a carrier.
2. She will train China’s military planners on how to integrate sea-based strike air power into fleet operations, tactics, and strategy.
3. She will train the PLAN’s officers & men on how to operate a carrier.
4. She will train the PLAN’s pilots on how to fly to/from a carrier.
Exactly!
The only “new” thing here is the “decision” to reduce the long-term buy of F-35B… something that won’t make any difference until 10 years from now.
Which is plenty of time to reconsider a restoration of the numbers bought.
Everything relating to the ships themselves (yes, both will still be built) is exactly as planned for the last 3 years or so.
Armament was to be four 20-mm cannon mounted in the lower edges of the air intakes. In addition, four Sidewinder infrared-homing air-to-air missiles or two Sidewinders and two 150-US gallon drop tanks could be carried on underwing racks.
There were four underwing pylons for external stores (500 lb outer, 1,000 lb inner). I suspect that any “dumb” bombs that were within the pylon ratings could be carried, but no specific weapons tests were done due to its short service life.
The longer nose was to have been fitted with an AN/APS-50 radar set, but this was never actually installed, due to the decision to phase out the Tiger in favor of the Crusader. 157 of these “long-nose” versions were eventually completed.
Had the Super Tiger been accepted for production, the pylons might well have been up-rated… and a wider weapons range certified… as well as the AN/APS-50 or similar radar been fitted.
It is possible that larger wingtips outboard of the fold might have also been developed, to increase lift & payload capacity. Note the fold outboard of the ailerons.

lol, why?
The USN decided “the Super Tiger is too heavy to operate from carriers”… despite being lighter than the F8U Crusader, and having a better thrust/weight ratio than all but 1 of the Crusader variants… and it would beat that with any of the more powerful J79 variants available by 1960.
I strongly suspect it was more a “politico-industrial” decision… Grumman had lots of USN work even without the Super Tiger (A2F for example… which became the A-6 Intruder, and S2F Tracker), but Vought (later LTV) had nothing in production or development beside the F8U (the F7U Cutlass had been cut short as a “failure”), and were in danger of folding.
looks wise, i thought it was similar ish
Don’t be ashamed Nashio966… I think the same thing.
In fact, an AH concept I have been working on has Australia buying one of the incomplete Centaur class CVLs instead of Majestic (HMAS Melbourne). Incidentally this allows the RN to keep & complete the 3rd “Audacious”, thus giving Eagle & Ark Royal a sister instead of Hermes.
By ~1959 the RAN decides to equip her with the “Super Tiger” (F11F-1F, with a J79-GE-3 [9,600 lb (14,800 lb reheat)] instead of the J65-W-18 [7,400 lb (10,500 lb reheat)] {J65 was a license-built Sapphire 100}), and to buy a navalized Gnat for trainer duties.
I decided this purely on the similarity of planform, which should (read might) yield similar flight characteristics.
Of course, in 1965 the RAN picks up Centaur upon her decommissioning (giving them 2 useable carriers), and pick up some more F-11s from USN storage for upgrade to Super Tiger standard… with A-7s for the attack complement.
From the local airport:



I also took lots of close-ups of landing gear, intakes, control surfaces, etc… .

Yep I was a USMC “intermediate level” avionics tech (squadrons pulled the boxes & sent them to us) from 1981-89, and saw a full deployment cycle on CV-61 USS Ranger in 1986-87.
There is a lot of room-filling equipment that takes a couple of weeks to break down and transfer, and another couple of weeks to re-assemble & return to operation. The newer stuff might be easier to do, though.
Most of the avionics at the “I” level is run up on test sets that are ~6′ tall, 2′ deep, and 10-20′ wide… and which run lots of different boxes.
Here is a doc on the current (2000+) primary avionics test station (it can have more or less bays depending on needs). Note the number of separate CASS sets shown installed on each CV/CVN as of 1999 (up to 9 per ship):
http://www.amdo.org/howzcass.doc
Here are a couple of pics of what we used:
Computerized Automatic Test Station (CAT-IIID)
Unidentified test station (the fugly SGT below is me)
What this release actually says is “we will only buy enough F-35B and associated ship-mounted maintenance and support equipment for one ship… for now”.
F-35Bs can still be operated from both ships, but only repaired/serviced on one… for now.
At any time while the F-35B production line is still open, more can be ordered, and the equipment to outfit the ship to provide maintenance & support for them can be bought.
One interesting development was that India is looking to have a wet wing E-2D. This would give it an endurance of 8 hours. If this is done i’m not sure if it would be to heavy for the CTOL carriers but it’s certainly interesting extending the endurance that much.
And India has specified that these E-2D are for land-based use!
Their carrier-based AEW appears to be a Ka-31* variant.
*whatever the actual designation is I don’t know… but the Russian fan contingent will quickly (and loudly) correct me, I’m sure.
So, having greater than 90% of the endurance of a Burke DDG at 18 knots is “poor”?
LCS-2: 4,300 mn @18 knots.
DDG-51 class: 4,400 mn @20 knots.
Australia (or darned near anyone else).
2 choices, large or small:
large: CTOL
copy of PA2
30 Rafale or F/18E/F, 4 E-2D, 1 C-2, 10 NH90 ASW/SAR/utility helos.
reason: may cost a tad more for the ship than a smaller one, but will save massively on design/development costs.
small: STOBAR/STOVL
copy of Indian Vikrant2
18-20 LCA/F-35B, 6 ASW/SAR NH90 or Kamov Ka31, 3 AEW NH90 or Ka31 (Searchwater TOSS for NH90).
reason: same as above
Brazil has a big flat top and is practising operating Skyhawks from it. Which is great and certainly no trivial capability. Brazil also certainly has the numbers. Sao Paulo will be able to operate more aircraft than a USMC platform. BUT ….. I don’t see these old Skyhawks as being superior to the AV8B+.
If/when Turbo trackers are ready for use as AEW then Brazil will have a capability that USMC just do not have. And the comparison becomes trickier. Is AEW worth more than AV8B+’s superior radar and BVM?
1. The A-4KUs that Brazil bought (now designated AF-1) averaged 1,700 flight hours, so they are young airframes, and have lots of service life yet.
2. They are being upgraded similarly to the F-5EMs… and will get the Griffo radar, complete with Python IV and Derby capability*.
3. Thus, considering payload, speed, range, etc, they will be not far off the AV-8B+ at all.
*In the Cruzex 2006 multinational war games, a F-5EM demonstrated BVR capability, firing a Derby missile targeted via data-linking with a Embraer R-99, fitted with the Erieye AESA radar.
Mig-21 can turn tighter than Lightning, so in a turning fight the “bleed-off” won’t matter, as Lightning won’t last long enough to make Mig-21’s turn rate deteriorate.
In a straight-line fight, Lightning accelerates far faster than Mig-21 and has a better rate of climb, so it can engage/disengage at will… until it runs out of fuel.
If Lightning initiates, expect 1 or two passes then it runs for home, with Mig-21 probably dying.
If Mig-21 initiates, Lightning probably dies before it can accelerate out of danger. Mig-21 probably attacks out of a dive.
Interesting “dogfight”… two aircraft primarily designed as bomber-interceptors trying to fight each other.
There is no point adding a second engine to JCA this late as we have allredy spent enough as it is.
Regards
Nick
Ummm… the “second engine” for F-35 has been there all along… and is nearly completed!
The only issue with the F-14 on USS Midway* was “the hangar is too low to allow preventative maintenance (landing gear drop-checks and ejection-seat removal)”.
The Midway class had the USN WW2-standard 17′ 6″ hangar “clear height”… while the RN’s CVA class was to have a greater overhead height.
The CVA class were to have a 250 foot BS-6 catapult, which would have been capable of launching F-14s with a normal combat load, and arresting gear which could have handled them as well.
*Only USS Midway had the C-13 catapult (2 bow), USS Coral Sea had 3 weaker C-11 cats**, and USS Franklin D. Roosevelt had 3 C-11 (as Coral Sea) until until 1968, when the waist cat was removed.
Midway also had upgraded arresting gear which could handle F-14s.
**2 C-11-1 on the bow, and a shorter C-11-2 on the waist.
OK, my attempt at humor whooshed over heads…
I was asking if this move to build up UAV forces might affect the PLAAF the way the original “GLF” did the Chinese economy…
The Great Leap Forward of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) was an economic and social plan used from 1958 to 1961 which aimed to use China’s vast population to rapidly transform China from a primarily agrarian economy by peasant farmers into a modern communist society through the process of agriculturalization and industrialization. Mao Zedong based this program on the Theory of Productive Forces. It ended in catastrophe as it triggered a widespread famine that resulted in millions of deaths.