“anybody got a shot of the F-16 with an APG-65?”

So that’s what a Lawndart looks like with a real radar!

Lets see… HS125 with Blue Vixen radar, a pair of Adour 804s (afterburning), AMRAAM, a Litening pod…. 😀 😀 😀

Except isn’t it a completely new aircraft, not a modification of an An 124?

Fuselage extensions, new wing root sections to extend the wingspan and add 2 more engines, and a completely new aft fuselage end and tail surfaces… I guess it could count as a modification… if you really push the term.

I think that we are well off-track of the original purpose of this thread… modifications to existing designs.

None of the “wierd designs” meet this definition, as they were designed the way they are, not modified from an existing design.

NO, how many times must this be gone over?

While the F-18L was indeed a “paper airplane”, it was a weight-reduced, de-navalized version of the USN’s F-18… NOT a seperate development of the USAF’s YF-17!!

The F-18/A-18/F-18L family had major structural and systems changes from the YF-17, including larger engines, a larger diameter nose with a longer-ranged & more powerful radar with a larger diameter antenna, a larger wing, and 2 more ordnance hard-points (fuselage corner stations).

The F-18L was to have all of these… it would simply have lighter-weight versions of the same structures that the F-18/A-18 had.

Specification of Northrop YF-17A:

Engines: Two General Electric YJ101-GE-100 turbojets, 15,000 lb.s.t. each with afterburning.
Weights: 21,000 pounds empty, 23,000 pounds gross, 30,630 pounds maximum takeoff.
Dimensions: Wingspan: 35 feet 0 inches, length 55 feet 6 inches, height 14 feet 6 inches, wing area 350 square feet.
Armament: One 20-mm M61A1 cannon. One AIM-9 Sidewinder infrared-homing air-to-air missile could be carried at each wingtip. Stores could be carried on one ventral centerline pylons, four underwing pylons, and two wingtip points.

Specification of McDonnell Douglas F/A-18A Hornet:

Engines: Two General Electric F404-GE-400 turbofans, each rated at 10,600 lb.s.t. dry and 15,800 lb.s.t. with afterburning.
Weights: 28,000 pounds empty, 38,000 pounds gross, 56,000 pounds maximum takeoff.
Dimensions: maximum wingspan 40 feet 8 inches, length 56 feet 0 inches, height 15 feet 3 inches, wing area 400 square feet.
Armament: Up to six AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles or up to four AIM-7 Sparrow air-to-air missiles. In addition, up to 17,000 pounds of fuel, missiles, and ordnance could be carried on one ventral centerline pylons, four underwing pylons, two fuselage corner stations, and two wingtip points.

The F404-GE-400 turbofan (with a .34 bypass ratio) was a development of the YJ101-GE-100 turbojet (with a .25 bypass ratio)… with a larger diameter outer casing giving the greater bypass airflow… and requiring a different aft fuselage structure.

The 4-armed cross is an Orthodox Christian thing (you know, Byzantium, the Patriarch of Constantinople, etc.).

The Orthodox Church is the Eastern branch of Medieval Christianity, and was the main rival of the Catholic Church (Western branch of Medieval Christianity) throughout the centuries.

And BTB, the Mirage III (or its updates) not boring? Fat chance… that is the most boring jet fighter in the world (ok, maybe the lawndart is #1, but not by very much… or is it Mig 21 that is #1?).

MAW = Marine Air Wing (composed of 2 or more MAGs)

HedRon = Headquarters Squadron (the administrative section of the MAG)
ServRon = Service Squadron (the above-squadron-level maintenance/repair & support sections of the MAG)

[the last two are called H&MS {Headquarters and Maintenance Squadron} in the 1960s-present USMC]

Btw, if both reheat pipes have the same external diameter, why was the Avon pipe 28.8″ and the Spey 36.8″ id?

That (44″) is the external diameter over the injector nozzles, structure, “feathers” (if the reheat is a variable type), etc.

The numbers you give are probably the internal diameter of the exhaust pipe around which all of the above structures were mounted.

The Spey pipe is larger to handle the higher airflow, and the external diameter is not larger because of the improved materials and design technology between the development of the Avon reheat module (~1960) and the development of the Spey reheat module (~1966).

Just for reference, I get my data from the engines sections of old Jane’s Aircraft (usually accurate but has an occasional goof) and various websites, including this one:
http://www.jet-engine.net/miltfspec.html
which seems to be fairly consistent with Jane’s, but which has its own share of errors.

I disagree with you, as you (fairly) rightly posted the air-flow rates of the Avon 200 and 300 series. It is well documented that when the 300 series Avons were fitted to the Lightning, they had to modulate the engine somewhat as the intake could not deal with the increased airflow at lower speeds. Also, sticking an RB 168 into the Lightning would have entailed up-scaling of the whole airframe. There wasn’t enough internal diameter to fit a Spey in there. Fitting an Avon in a Lightning was like putting on a pair of tight jeans, there wasn’t much room over.

Actually, Avon 200/300 diameter is 41.5″ main body, 44″ afterburner, while that of the RB.168 (Spey) is 37.5″ main body, 44″ afterburner.

Since someone else performed the resurrection on this thread, going back to the air-flow issue:

Avon 100 series: 118-129 lb/sec
Avon 200 series: 170 lb/sec
Avon 300 series: 175 lb/sec

Sapphire 100 series: 120 lb/sec
Sapphire 200 series: 150 lb/sec

Spey: 200-210 lb/sec

J-57: 181-200 lb/sec
J-79: 168-175 lb/sec

TF-30: 233-260 lb/sec

TF-41 (modified Spey): 260 lb/sec