Excellent research Badger! I would like to have witnessed that launch, full afterburn down the length of Arks deck, quite a spectacle.

It raises the question why after having problems with the hold back gear the a/c wasn’t recovered back on Saratoga rather than carrying on with the cross decking to smaller unfamiliar ship.

Wonder if the Skyray was also launched off Arks cats on afterburner? On Eagle when carrying out trials with the F4k a large metal plate was fixed to the deck in front of the JBDs which was cooled with a fire hose after each launch. Of course after the Phantom refit (1967-1969) Ark had water cooling on the JBDs and deck where needed.

Thanks for your info Badger:)

I suspect that the damaged/missing holdback fitting was only discovered after recovery aboard Ark Royal… that is the only way it makes sense.

The F4D used 1 afterburning J57, located on the centerline of the fuselage, with the exhaust nozzle clear of all structures… this would allow the heat to spread out in all directions. Note that this was the same engine and location as in the F-8 Crusader… and both aircraft operated from the modernized Essex class carriers without a water-cooled JBD (and with a wood-covered flight deck).

The F-4 Phantom had 2 afterburning J79s with almost the same thrust (thus double the heat output), they were located in the lower fuselage, they were pointed slightly downward, and their exhaust nozzles were under the aft part of the tail structure (which prevented any of the exhaust from spreading out upwards)… all of which concentrated the heat onto the deck/JBD.

Add in the lengthened nose-gear of the F-4K (which pointed the jet blast even further down into the deck/JBD), and you have well over twice the heating of the JBD.

Sorry for the confusion Badger I didn’t doubt your knowledge of ship/squadron deployment. I thought you were trying to tell me the photo was later than 1957.

I have attached the full sized photo for you to down load and expand. It does look like VF51 however I bow to your greater knowledge on the subject.

Paul.

Thanks for the blow-up… it would have helped a bit.

Not personal knowledge… research.

This site: http://navysite.de/carriers.htm gives considerable history of all USN carriers (the main site covers a vast number of USN ships of all types).

In each carrier’s individual listing is found the line “Click here to get a view of the deployments of USS (ship name)”, usually located just after the text giving the ship’s history.

Clicking on the hyper-linked word “here” gives a table listing the ship’s deployments. In the case of carriers, it includes the following information:
Date of Departure – Date of Return – CVW – Squadrons (Aircraft) – Tail code – Area of Operations – Battle Group – Operations/Exercises – Ports of Call

Not all the info is always there, but the first 5 columns are nearly always complete.

This site: http://www.joebaugher.com/uscombataircraft.html gives a good capsule history of aircraft types, model by model, including operational history, service history by nation, and construction serial numbers.

Here is the entry for the F3H Demon: McDonnell F3H Demon

It was trying to trace the history of CVW-7, to see just when the tail code AG first was used that led me to the possibility of the code being changed during Saratoga’s 1957 deployment.

The first instance of a single-letter tail code being listed as having changed to a two-letter code was for a deployment which started July 1957, and the last was CVW-7… last deployment listed with “L” being the 1957 Saratoga deployment and the first listed with “AG” being the 1960 Independence deployment.

That is why I was thinking the photo had to be from 1960-62… but your insistence on it being 1957 led me to consider the possible change of tail code during Saratoga’s 1957 deployment… with the squadron number VF-61 confirming that.

The USN block numbers make a 5 and a 6 look very similar. Look at this photo of a VF-61 Demon on USS F. D. Roosevelt in April 1957:

I know for sure the photo is from 1957. Ark was on the US eastern sea board during this commission. BTW on expanding the photo I noticed the following, the Demon’s are marked “VF51” not VF61, the letter on the flight deck of Ark Royal (just visable behind the last Demon) is an “O” This changed to”R” in 1959.

Well to repeat, since you seem to have failed to read it the first time: in 1957 the only Demon squadron operating from Forrestal was VF-14, and the tail code was T.

Your photo shows a tail code of AG… which was only applied to air wing 7. However, it might be the case that the tail code was changed during 1957*… VF-61 was operating Demons from USS Saratoga in the North Atlantic and the Norwegian Sea (for Operation Strikeback) from September 3, 1957 – October 22, 1957; air wing 7; tail code L.

If the tail code was changed from “L” to “AG” during this deployment, then this is the ship and squadron they are from.

Your identification of the squadron number must also be incorrect, as VF-51 was operating FJ-3M Furies from USS Bonhomme Richard in the Pacific Ocean from July 12, 1957 – December 9, 1957; CVG-5; tail code NF; ports of call: Pearl Harbor, Hi.; Yokosuka, Japan; Kobe, Japan; Iwakuni, Japan; Beppu, Japan; Cubi Point, Philippines; Hong Kong

These are the only squadrons to operate the F3H Demon:

Atlantic Fleet:
VF-13, VF-14, VF-31, VF-41, VF-61, VF-82, VF-131, VF-161

Pacific Fleet:
VF-21, VF-24, VF-53, VF-54, VF-64, VF-92, VF-112, VF-114, VF-122, VF-124, VF-141, VF-151, VF-193, VF-213

In addition, Demons also served with two replacement training squadrons (VF-101 and VF-121), with two evaluation squadrons (VX-3 and VX-4), and with one composite squadron (VC-3).

* Note that when the two-letter tail codes began to be applied, in mid-1957, all Atlantic Ocean air wings got a code beginning with “A”, and all Pacific Ocean air wings got a code beginning with “N”.

Does that mean the Demons were cross decking from the Forrestal?

NO!

As I said before, ONLY INDEPENDENCE used tail code AG!

NO USN carrier used tail code AG before Independence, so NO aircraft would carry it before January 1959, and all aircraft with it after that date would be from Independence.

Here are the tail codes used by Forrestal during that time period: http://navysite.de/cvn/cv59deploy.htm

January 15, 1957 – July 22, 1957; CVW-1; tail code T; VF-14 (F3H-2N)

This was Forrestal’s ONLY deployment with Demons.

Pic shows up fine for me.

Hmmm… I see “Shep” was responsible for the “loan” of the now-flying Sabre to Temora.

Did he do that so “Poodle” could get some more time in one?

Old-boys network and all that.

RAAF CA-27 Sabre Military S/N: A94-983

A significant commitment to preserving historical military aircraft was made by the Chief of Air Force, Air Marshal Geoff Shepherd when he signed an agreement with the Temora Aviation Museum during a ceremony at the museum on Saturday November 26th 2005. Under the agreement, co-signed by the Founder and President of the Museum Mr David Lowy, the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) will loan one of its historic aircraft to the Temora Aviation Museum (TAM). The Sabre jet, flown throughout Australia and South East Asia by the RAAF will be restored to flying condition by TAM.

Bruce Wood Safety Officer

Bruce retired as an Air Commodore from the RAAF in 2000 after a career, which spanned 35 years and culminated with his posting to East Timor as the Air Component Commander of INTERFET.

Bruce’s Air Force career was largely as a single seat, single engine fighter pilot flying the Sabre and Mirage.
…..
While an instructor at Williamtown NSW in 1976, he and his student were forced to eject from a dual Mirage after an undercarriage failure.

Bruce flies the Museum’s Vampire and A37B Dragonfly.

This one was at RAAF Edinburgh, South Australia, a few years back

That’s A3-115.
Mirage IIID
Delivered 12/73. Served with 2OCU. Served with ARDU. Withdrawn 12/86. Was held by DSTO at Adelaide SA until 1999. Aquired by ARDU for restoration to ARDU colours a test nose cone. It will be displayed outside ARDU’s HQ once completed.
# Images of A3-115

#63 is NOT a Douglas Devastator… it is a Vought Vindicator.

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/aircraft/dive-bomber/vought-sb2u-vindicator.asp

Here is a Devastator:
http://www.military-aircraft.org.uk/bombers/douglas-tdb-devastator.jpg