What RCS reduction shaping fundamentals is PAK FA breaking?
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Fundamentals ain’t worth much.. All that matters is implementation of details. Materials, RAM coiatings, internals, blockers… Do you have any information about these? I doubt it..
If I was an eyeball RCS analyst like yourself, I would say that the F-35 clearly did not place much emphasis on reducing its RCS, either.. Round engine nacelle, round exhaust nozzle, lots of bulges on the underside, not exactly a stealthy design if you ask me..
Of course fundamentals matter. They sort an aircraft into a general performance category. How do we know the PAK FA is a better kinematic performer than an F-35? Fundamentals.
How do we know the PAK FA is less stealthy than its 5th generation rivals? Fundamentals.
That is, indeed a widely believed myth, the question remains, however, on what grounds this is based. Most of the analyuses I have seen thus far relied on fairly primitive claims in style “it doesn’t have a solution applied on the F-22 so it must be less stealthy”.. My best guess is that we can wait a decade until fairly accurate info has emerged..
I do love how you call the various assessments a “myth” and then go on to say you have no idea what you are talking about.
:stupid:
The fundamentals of reduced RCS shaping are widely known and the PAK FA clearly didn’t place the same emphasis on reducing its RCS that the other 5th generation fighters have.
AMCA design evolution till now:
So basically the more they work on it the closer they get to the J-31, itself heavily patterned on the F-35…
Maybe when India can build a jet trainer (or even just a radome) without external assistance we can begin to take such criticism of others seriously. :rolleyes:
They are just making the exact same observations that every other unbiased observer has… the PAK FA is designed with a relatively low emphasis on stealth relative to other 5th generation fighters.
On Sept. 7, the first F-35A assembled outside the US, made its very first flight from Cameri airbase.
The aircraft, designated AL-1, is the first of eight aircraft currently being assembled at the Final Assembly and Check Out (FACO) facility at Cameri, in northwestern Italy. As already explained in a previous post, the FACO will assemble the first Italian F-35As and the remaining F-35A and F-35B for the Italian Air Force and Navy, and build F-35A for the Royal Netherlands Air Force.
http://theaviationist.com/2015/09/07/first-international-f-35-makes-first-flight/
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The old and the new together…
Of course it is goddamn bogus, jesus christ.
Here is a lengthy story:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4696268,00.html
Either these guys got the scoop of the century, or this is going to end up right up there with Bill’s Aurora story…
its fully possible if meteor get integrated on F-35 and Su-35 dont get an equivalent integrated
Though I don’t want to further propagate this worn out exercise, Meteor on an Su-35 wouldn’t make much difference against an F-35. That is what a lot of the F-35 haters don’t seem to get… advancing missile technology favors the F-35 against any 4th generation aircraft because the F-35 is capable of taking advantage of the increased range/speed of the new weapons while the 4th generation aircraft remain constrained by their ability to detect an F-35.
Who said anything about “beating” the A-4s? These were training exercises. The A-4s were training aids.
The noteworthy part of this is that Dutch, UK, and US F-35s are developing the tactics that will be used by operational F-35 units. Oh, and they have good things to say about the F-35 so of course we know they are all liars.
I would say it has.
The timing and technical challange Russia IRKUTS faced has contributing a great deal for further prospect of their Flankers Product. On a pure R%D Level too.The MKI deal With India came at a time when Russia couldn’t order anything for domestic use.
Exactly, it was and is a huge source of revenue for industries that badly needed it. If India orders 200+ PAK FA’s then that would be a giant win for the program. If on the other hand India backs out of the program or defers their orders, then there goes roughly half of the PAK FA’s orders, no small blow to a program in its nascent phase.
This is just common sense, which doesn’t appear to be evident in some here.
Su-27 and Su-30MKI are, too, largely identical. But the Indian funding of the Su-30MKI has had little impact on the Flanker series as whole.
:stupid:
Really?
First off, the Su-27 was already in large scale production long before the Su-30MKI entered development. It is a totally different scenario.
Second, the Su-30MKI has accounted for a huge chunk of the total Su-27/30 production since 2000. Only a fool would suggest it hasn’t had a huge impact on the Flanker’s overall economies of scale, etc.
The numbers are being revised as we speak. No one knows the final result but they won’t reach the planned 2,443 figure, IMHO.
Really? Says who?
On Tuesday, however, Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook stated that no major review of the numbers is underway.
“We’re not making any formal evaluation or revisit to those objectives at this particular moment in time,” Cook said.
However, Cook indicated it doesn’t mean that the number is not up for debate.
“With all programs going forward, the [fiscal year 2017] budget process, every program is going to be reviewed,” he said. “Obviously, the budget situation here in Washington will have a big impact on that, but there is nothing at this point to indicate any formal review of this number. But there will be the standard budget review of all programs going forward to FY 17.”
In other words, a formal, Pentagon-wide review of the 2,443 figure is not underway. But with the Pentagon looking for ways to keep costs down in the face of lower-than-desired budget levels going forward, all programs are at least being looked at. That situation will likely escalate if Congress looks towards a long-term continuing resolution.
“Every program is going to be under review, F-35 or otherwise, but I wouldn’t suggest to you there has been any change in the outlook for the F-35,” Cook added.
There is no formal review and projected orders have not been cut… but if budgets get cut in the future then yearly orders may have to fall. This is nothing but a statement of the obvious that some people have tried to spin into sometime else.
Not sure why you would engage Msphere and his flanker love obsession. I’d let him wither on the vine now that his foil and equal lukos is gone.
Indeed…
The IAF purchase of the FGFA seems to be taking the route of the Rafale deal. Says nothing of the capability of the finished product (which will be a fine aircraft in 5-8 years). The procurement process of the MoD is, on the other hand in need of an overhaul.
Time, not Indian funding are key to the pak-fa project. The question is: what will the FGFA program for India include, and what offsets India will demand ? The Rafale deal gives a clue that negotiations will not be easy.
Given enough time Russia can complete the PAK FA. What I wonder about is whether there will be money available to produce it in numbers that won’t leave the Russian force structure a hollow shell. This is a variation of some of the same things critics have said about the F-22 and F-35 of course, but in Russia’s case the argument has a lot more weight. The US and most of those buying the F-35 aren’t in the midst of an economic crisis.
Errrrr…. you obviously missed that FGFA included a twin-seater…
If you don’t know what “largely” mean then you need to brush up on your English.
Backing away because of reduced numbers? By that logic your own AF and Navy are backing away from the F-35.
Have they reduced their proposed buy?
But it was! And he actually flew the fecking thing – and he isn’t an employee of LM…;)
It does make it harder for the F-35 haters when they are forced to slander actual operational pilots from various forces. Things are only going to get worse for them it seems…
Colonel Albert De Smit, commander of the Netherlands operational test detachment, said the testing sought to validate that the new fifth-generation F-35s could share useable data with older F-16s and aerial refueling aircraft via the Link 16 system.
He said the results showed that during combat, the F-35 could help relay key targeting, surveillance and other data to less capable F-16s and other planes, in much the same way that the U.S. Air Force’s F-22 fighter jets work with older aircraft.
“The amount of information that we can share is very promising,” De Smit said in a telephone interview this week. “It provides fourth generation aircraft with information that they normally would not have … It looks like they’re going to be able to execute a better mission” if used together with F-35 jets.
He added that it could take months to fully evaluate the results of the tests, which involved two to three Dutch and British F-35s, as well as Dutch F-16s, refueling planes and a small fleet of A-4 Skyhawks posing as enemy aircraft.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/28/lockheed-fighter-netherlands-idUSL1N11310720150828
The tests included Dutch and UK F-35s, in addition to Dutch F-16s, a tanker, and some A-4s. 😎
They were supposed to contribute billions to the development of FGFA, not PAK-FA.
PAK-FA will be inducted with or without Indian interest, Russians need a next gen replacement of Flankers, nomatterwhat..As for the satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the aircraft itself, I think with 5 flying prototypes it’s way too early to tell.
The two aircraft are largely identical. It is true that Russia needs a replacement for its various aging Soviet designs, but that doesn’t somehow guarantee that they will get it. Russia’s economy is in bad shape and they are already being forced to delay/defer programs, including the PAK FA and the PAK DA.
The Indians have as good an insight into the PAK FA as anyone at this point. If they are backing away from the program it says a lot, and only a fool could convince themself that it wouldn’t inflict a serious blow to the overall program.