N.WotherspoonLatest article on the fate of the Millom collection http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/ Looks like I may have misjudged the liquidators? as they stil seem intent on returning exhibits to their rightful owners despite the cut off date having passed – mind you they still don’t seem to be answering emails 🙁
N.WotherspoonHi Kookaburra
Definitely NO German losses at all in this area and no German war graves at Worston – nearest site is that of a P-47 42-22758 from East Wretham, en route to Warton which crashed on 6th Feb. 1944 on the west flank of Pendle, which is the Mearley Moor side and twisted fragment may still be found when the bracken covering much of the crash site dies back in winter. Also in this area is a long standing local rumour of a force landed Spitfire that I have never managed to substantiate through any documentary records – one local even claimed to have a sheared off wooden prop blade taken as a souvenir , but I never managed to gain access to view it. Nearer to Barnoldswick was Defiant N3328 close to Gisburn, but there was nothing to see there and it was in a farmer’s field – locals did here it circling the Barnoldswick area just prior to the crash.
N.WotherspoonA.N.S.A.
Interesting article – Thanks for the link Andy – has anyone visited A.N.S.A’s collection? I note from the article that it has now moved to the old WW1 airship hangar at Ecausseville? I believe they used to have hangar space at Evreux, but it was only accessible by appointment and despite several attempts at contacting them, including meeting up with a representative in Normandy a few years ago, I never managed to secure a visit – I felt I was being vetted! Perhaps they were worried I had other motives? (Which was certainly NOT the case!). They did seem a little reluctant and the contact I met proceeded to relate a graphic account of how a British group had been stopped at customs and the results of a “successful” dig confiscated thanks to a tip off from them.
N.WotherspoonI have witnessed such individuals who look at crash-recovered artefacts as mere scrap without knowing the history or relevance, or for that matter, who actually owns them in many cases!Pete
I agree with your comments Pete – especially as outlined above – Whilst I appreciated the museum’s offer of space to display our group’s finds – as making them available to the public was always a primary goal of ours – it was a long running struggle, as finds were on occasion polished or painted without consultation to create “better exhibits”.
Without the associated research many such artefacts are little more than scrap metal – a fate which I fear many of the museum’s own dug / recovered artefacts are about to suffer as the displays have been dismantled and labelling lost – a situation which I cannot see the liquidators being able to rectify or indeed being viable for them to even consider – I have emailed them twice on this matter but received no reply or acknowledgement whatsoever (Very unprofessional IMO – & for the record I have experience of working for an auction company and managing a few liquidation sales myself) – so I feel their priorities are rapidly becoming apparent and suspect the whole lot will end up in the scrap dealers skip 🙁
N.WotherspoonWhilst browsing the net looking for turret details to try to work out how much of my A-26 turret is now missing :(– see cautionary tale thread. I came across this site: USS Monitor and was fascinated by the lengths they are going to in order to conserve the artefacts from this historically priceless wreck.
So it seems that progress is being made, though the quoted 5 to 15 years to de-salinate the artefacts before serious work can begin makes it sound like we might have a long wait to see this aircraft on display?
N.WotherspoonI would certainly echo Don’s warning – I had a large amount of material, both aviation archaeology recovered artefacts and home front memorabilia on loan to the Millom museum – I have to say I feel I have been very lucky overall, as the volunteers there have worked tirelessly (and probably to the detriment of their own health & sanity!) to ensure as much as was humanly possible has been returned to its original owners.
With much help from the other members of our group, I have managed to secure approx 95% of my dug artefacts and memorabilia, though a certain (unnamed) individual’s penchant for moving exhibits around at the museum, without notice, has caused major headaches in locating items and separating them from other peoples material, leading the loss of several smaller items !
However, I discovered that a significant quantity of artefacts from the Time Team A-26 dig appear to have been disposed of for scrap several months before and exhibits that were promised undercover space, were left outside exposed to the elements. However, the worst loss was the virtual destruction of an almost intact gun turret, after the aforesaid individual decided to dismantle it, leaving the stripped frame outside and many major components missing. Despite a thorough search of the premises no trace of the gun mountings and several parts removed from the guns themselves could be found. 🙁
N.WotherspoonThanks Rocketeer, But have already been given a set of strong looking castors (think they are flexello) – Is there any way of telling the weight rating of them? – Just to be safe.
Also trying to source some steel locally – Without paying too much! 😉 But need a few design ideas – I am quite able to weld vehicle body and chassis work – up to Landy / Volvo Amazon gauge. So was hoping to build something myself – Merlin Pete is probably a good source as you say and not too far away.
The Catterick Spitfire saga sounds a bit of a B*##er – I recall attending a Halifax dig over that way many years ago and the farmer ended up hijacking it and decided he liked the two engines (Hercules and very intact) we found so much he would keep them 😡
N.WotherspoonNO, definitely no ambitions to try for a runner! I would think that the 15 degree kink in the front 12 inches of the crankshaft would put pay to that in any case! – So static it is!
Thanks for the offer Anon – PM me for contact details – I had thought of the main bearing bolts as I definitely do not want to start drilling through anything if I can avoid it. The left rear mounting unit is still attached and the right rear one has partially broken off but only the outer section and has not gone through the casing so there is a cavity that a pad of some sort could be inserted into and it could then rest on it – Though we may have some of the damaged parts, when we have cleaned everything up, as we always take everything back with us on a dig.
Elliott – I confess I have not heard of Altrans – I have used a product called “caravan pride” before which is a lot less abrasive than “T-cut” and doesn’t leave such a messy residue, but I confess trying to stop paint lifting off dug items is usually of far more concern to me than improving the appearance!
Ian – will speak to you soon.
N.WotherspoonAt the moment it is in my workshop draining! 65 years of water seeping into it is gradually emptying now it has finally returned to the horizontal. Also the oil lines have ruptured near the front, where part of the sump is missing, so I am trying to catch the oil before it ends up all over the floor as well! I am removing the larger lumps of clay by hand, but a power washer will be involved soon – No stiff brushes or harsh direct jetting as it still retains 99% of it original painted finish and I intend to keep it that way. Then I suspect it will be many evenings of picking out any remaining clay with wooden picks and old toothbrushes, a bit of selective careful dismantling to ensure no clay or water remains in any cavities. I intend to use microcrystalline wax to inhibit the bright parts such as nuts and bolt heads against corrosion and protect the painted finish.
N.WotherspoonThanks Andy, I will PM him.
Icare9 – The pond was definitely there before the aircraft arrived! It was not very deep apparently and only ornamental – we found traces of the clay liner around the edges of the rockery. The impact would have destroyed the integrity of this liner and it seems rather than repair it, the crater was used as a convenient rubbish / rubble tip, probably whilst the house was being repaired. Sometime later, when the appearance of the garden became the priority, it was landscaped into a large rockery feature.
N.WotherspoonSpent yesterday afternoon re-arranging my workshop to fit the Merlin in, but still leave me enough room to get around it + get the trailer in too with the rest of KH838 still on it! I suppose I could have pushed one of the cars outside, but managed eventually.
Afraid I still need the lifting straps Alan, as due to the Oil and coolant pumps all being intact, it is impossible to keep it the right way up unless it is suspended – The roof beam and rolling hook are rated well above its weight, but I definitely need a new chain hoist!
Anyone on here got any tips on the best points to attach a dug Merlin to a frame? All but one of the original mountings have gone or are too damaged to use. I would like to be able to incorporate the sections of engine bearer back in their correct positions – but obviously not structurally! I need to get it mobile, as it needs power washing ASAP! Any design tips for a display frame or pointers to photos greatly appreciated.
N.WotherspoonHi – I think the intended target was Manchester for the Chrismas eve 1944 V1s, but air launching them proved highly inaccurate and several on this night were carrying leaflets including supposed POW letters which the Germans hoped would generate replies to the POWs concerned, which would then give them clues as to where they came down!!! Ingenious! I have investigated two of the impact sites and found a large section of the tail at one + a local who had one of the leaflets and a reduced size copy of “Signal” Hitler’s colour propaganda magazine – he lent me them to copy but would not part with them.
A good source on this and other air launched “raids” is: Air-Launched Doodlebugs: Hitler’s V 1 Missiles and 111/Kampfgeschwader 3 and 53 by Peter J. Smith
N.WotherspoonVery dissapointed to have heard nothing from you or Gareth about the dig under the circumstances! since his last email a couple of weeks ago 🙁
N.WotherspoonHere’s two for:
Spitfire XIV RN210 – Freckleton – 8th May 1948
Supermarine Attacker WA535 – Winwick – 5th February 1953
and one against!
Meteor VT121 – Over Kellett – 22nd July 1951
I would need a lot of persuading to go anywhere near a Meteor site again! 😡
N.WotherspoonOn a serious note, I have a theory.
Young Mr Lemon DID recall a crash of some sort at the location he describes, although it was clearly not a Me 109. It may have even been German – although I cannot identify it at present. However, a Messerschmitt 109 WAS displayed locally to raise monies for the Spitfire Fund (this would account for the Me 109 seen on a lorry) and Mr Lemon perhaps sat in it having paid his obligatory 6d. Over the years, the stories have merged in his memory. However, it does not quite explain how he came by the photograph of the Me 109 in the field, although this could easily have been obtained from a local soldier who happened to be near Manston when the 109 crashed.
Maybe the Me 109 displayed was this one? And is that young Denis Lemon, perchance, peering at the camera?
However, I much prefer the African Swallow theory.
Think this almost certainly the most credible sequence of events – over the years I have come across several “eye-witness” accounts to German fighters crashing in the North West – strange how the aircraft are nearly always intact and the story-teller, who was generally of school age at the time of the “crash”, got to sit in the cockpit ! Still must have been quite an experience during wartime for a young lad and, as you say, has merged with other memories. Still as I can’t recall much of what I did around that age and it is not (quite) so long ago, perhaps some are being a little harsh and those of us used to interviewing elderly witnesses are hopefully a little more forgiving – The paper really should have known better though!
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