N.WotherspoonDon’t think it was a particulalrly old biplane, certainly not a Moth or Stearman – he / she was really throwing it around, doing vertical climbs, hanging on the prop until the engine cut. Then re-starting as it fell / spun down. Was a bit hazy with low cloud, so despite low level (think under 2000 feet) I couldnt make out much detail, though it seemed to be a darkish colour, possibly blue?
N.WotherspoonThanks “50sqnwop/ag” but several airfields it could have come from – the low level and duration of the “display” makes me think he (or she) is known locally, so thought someone on here might know – The BBC team were certainly impressed, if a little spooked at first as we could only hear the a/c not see it and when the engine cut the first time…….:eek:
N.WotherspoonLooks like that piston took some serious work with a heavy duty engineer’s knocking stick to get it out! seized engine? The rocker cover looks identical to parts we found at a B-17 crash site, so R 1820 Cyclone?
N.WotherspoonThis made me laugh!
LUFTWAFFE HEINKEL HE111 CRASHED WIDNES 1941 HURRICANE
I have seen plenty of these before and think that they actually were made from aircraft alloy – A bit like the Victory bells. But as for stating that it is from this aircraft, I think that is stretching credibility somewhat & I note he offers no provenance.
As for no other parts being in existance – well true there isnt much – a few “dog-tag” type medallions were made from the sparse incinerated remains – possibly distributed to members of an AA gun battery it crashed close to and a barrage balloon crew partially credited with bringing it down – we have one of them in our collection + a small tray of badly corroded fragments recovered during an exhaustive electronic survey of the crash site – which was widely reported in the local papers – We pinpointed and confirmed the impact point, which was our aim + we ascertained that no significant remains were buried at the site – hardly surprising considering the efficient recovery at the time and a number of unofficial visits by enthusiasts since – So much for “Not been touched since”
I also note that this is not the first time this item has appeared on eBay and, if I recall correctly, it appeared to sell?
N.WotherspoonHadrian Cockpit section – I was treasurer of the now defunct Pennine Aviation Museum and as the collection had to be split up due to loss of the museum site, at one of the final meetings, it was agreed between all of us, that each of the remaining members would be allowed to keep one major item. My first choice was a Hunter cockpit section, already mounted on a trailer chassis, but the member who had provided storage for this for the museum sold it without knowing this was to be my item – for £250 I believe 🙁 – probably what the cost of the storage space it occupied on his commercial premises cost over the years, so fair enough I suppose. By this time there were few items left, so I decided on the rather rusty frame that comprised the cockpit of a Hadrian assault glider – However, I was undertaking a major house renovation at the time (much like now!) & the drive had to come up, so despite having a large garden there was no access. So another member of the society (who I will not name) offered to store it – to rub salt in, I even provided the transport to take it there! – Needless to say once he had it safely stored away, it was made clear that there was no question of my ever taking possesion 🙁
N.WotherspoonThen a program around a dig? Should get some financial gain from it to assist in the project?
“Financial gain” from taking part in a TV program !!!!!! 😮
Having taken part in several documentaries, I think before making too many plans, someone needs to research the actual income generating potential first – Production companies are usually working on very tight budgets – or so they would have you believe :rolleyes:
If if you mean your own production – now there’s an idea for our next dig! :diablo:
N.WotherspoonWhat, and you couldn’t pull all that out of a hat for them? :rolleyes:
Of course we did 😀
N.WotherspoonMy thanks to everyone, again very interesting reading, but then anything Whirly related is always interesting… 😉
Sounds like a Time Team Special to me, can just see it, Summer dig, History of the Whirlwind, Fred Ballam from Westlands and Steve Vizzard from AA as the invited experts… 😀
Anyone know Tony Robinson … :rolleyes:
Stuart…
Not personally, but have contact details for those responsible for the program – However I would forget it ! They strung us along for several months last year, after saying they were interested in an aircraft project and that our propsal was shortlisted, but then finally rejecting it, as the site “would not feature typical archaeological stratification” which is apparently a requirement for all future programs.
This was of course not our first contact with them as we did carry out an excavation with them a few years ago – see: Bombers in the Marsh. On that occasion they had initially approached us, as someone on the production team had decided that another aircraft themed excavation was a good idea. However they had a long list of essential criteria:
• The depth of excavation had to be within reason – 10 feet max was mentioned!
• No likelihood of human remains.
• No live ordnance likely to be present and preferably no small arms ammunitions either!
• Artefacts need to be recognisable to the general public i.e. large relatively undamaged airframe pieces (not just engines) that they could put back together or preferably a complete buried airframe.
• Some recognisable stratification that their learned stars could discuss
• All buried remains had to be located with 10 figure GPS coordinates and positively identified before the project commenced
• Oh! & some sort of mystery that they could “solve” :rolleyes:
Good Luck!
N.WotherspoonCircular item looks like a fuel filler cap – have seen something very similar on Hurricane crash sites – if the cap wasnt so corroded it would have the capacity in gallons engraved into it. The hook looks pretty general purpose, perhaps from a cargo lashing strap? Finally the carbon rods – found loads of these when I used to go bottle digging – they are the electrodes from carbon arc electric lamps.
N.WotherspoonA veteran I spoke to several years ago, admitted to having initially declared himself as a conscientious objector during the war, though he said that he had stated that he was prepared to undertake humanitarian duties, i.e. ambulance driver etc. He found himself placed on a recovery team tasked with removing bodies from high ground crash sites in the North of England, along with several other conscientious objectors. At first he found this duty unpleasant but bearable as the bodies were fairly intact. However his team was then given the job of recovering the crew of Halifax DT578 on Great Whernside.
The aircraft had in fact dived almost vertically into a particularly steep section of the hill, which fell away at almost the same angle as the doomed aircraft was diving, causing it to almost completely disintegrate before the remains embedded themselves at the point where the slope began to level out. This caused parts of the aircraft to be spread over a large area of the western face of Great Whernside. The recovery operation took a number of weeks in appalling weather conditions and the remains were collected together and identified in a temporary mortuary on the hillside at 1525 feet, now the Hag Dyke Scout hostel. He said the officer in charge of the team was particularly unsympathetic towards the objectors and he felt that this contributed to his insistence that every possible effort was made to find all possible remains – something that my informant did not disagree with, despite the effort involved. He was upset that the identities of the men that they had spent such a long time recovering was kept from them and until I was able to fill in the gaps, he had never been able to visit the graves and pay his respects.
He and a number of other conscientious objectors making up the team found this experience so unsettling that they volunteered for active service as soon as the recovery was completed.
N.Wotherspoonfair forums?
Have already joined WIX & had some great information in reply to a query I posted, Looking at ’12 oclock high’ in a second window as I write.
Have found the ‘Aero Part Identify Board’ useful in the past as well.
N.Wotherspoonfair forums?
Have already joined WIX & had some great information in reply to a query I posted, Looking at ’12 oclock high’ in a second window as I write.
Have found the ‘Aero Part Identify Board’ useful in the past as well.
N.WotherspoonHave found one of those switches or at least parts of one before – just can’t recall where? possibly Firefly? or Defiant? Seem to recall it was rotary operated & I thought it might be a dimmer switch of some kind?
Item on the left is as Peter says, the stock plate or grip plate from a flare pistol & common to many aircraft – strange how often these turn up, but I have yet to find a flare pistol on a dig!
N.WotherspoonMystery solved!
Quote – http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk: “The Ministry of Defence confirmed yesterday that they are closely examining the satellite images. They said: “Our aviation historians are investigating whether or not the object is indeed a World War II aircraft.”
Ah! – So the mystery will be solved any minute now!!!! :diablo:
Seriously though, I can’t see any convincing evidence here at all – Near to me there are a couple of similar rumours, including the proverbial lost German bomber in a resevoir – despite no documentary evidence at all it seems local subaqua enthusiasts put quite a lot of time into a fruitless search…..
……However I was also sceptical when a French WW1 enthusiast I met over there several years ago told me how he had dug down to the hatch of a WW1 British tank – opened it and climbed in side! See: http://www.tank-cambrai.com/english/tank/discovery.php
N.WotherspoonSurely it must be “THE BATTLE OF BRITAIN THEN AND NOW” Mk V – Edited by Winston G. Ramsey?
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