Thanks for all the suggestions and recommendations, please keep them coming.

No Typhoons at Bayeux, and the possibility of an overall disappointment, eh? So where do I go to see a (plastic) Typhoon in Normandy?

Hi – Plastic Typhoon is at the Historial at Caen – no one seems to have mentioned Watten (Eperlecques) – Huge bunker and far better and faithful to its history than Wizernes (la Coupole) IMO

As for other sites I have visited hundreds – WW1 & WW2 PM me for my new tel no. if you want a chat – I could do with a better idea of what you are interested in seeing rather than just reel off a random list – I have all the IGN maps, loads of leaflets & museum guides etc.

Think the Condé-Vraux Airfield Museum might be a little off your track if you are heading down towards Limoge? (Oradour-sur-Glane) also their opeing times are a little unusual if my memory serves me correctly & if you do want to visit I suggest checking their website . However if you are going that way there are loads of British linked WW1 sites on the Chemin des Dames (Aisne) area including underground tunnels (carrières) that are well worth a visit.

Missing? Airmen

When we first looked at the crash site of Supermarine Attacker WA535 at Winwick – crashed 5th February 1953 – We were left with the clear impression that the pilot had not been recovered and as the MOD had no record of his burial, we were told that a permit was unlikely to be granted. We traced the AAIB report and there were some rather gruesome details of what was found of the unfortunate pilot, which had originally included photos – fortunately removed! – it was thought that he may have partially regained consciousness and tried to initiate ejection almost at the point of impact. We eventually traced his grave, proving that a burial had indeed taken place and after considerable discussion amongst ourselves as what we would do should anything be found, we decided to go ahead. The MOD accepted our research and granted a permit and on the day of the excavation, apart from one shoe, nothing was found – we also noted very little evidence of the ejection system was present indicating that the theory outlined in the AAIB report would seem to be correct.

I would also agree with what has already been said – that there are a lot of factors to consider here before going ahead as this is inevitably a very emotive issue and there will be a lot of people suddenly expressing an interest if any remains are found and you could quickly find yourself under a great deal of scrutiny as to your motives and actions and quite possibly in a very awkward position.

Lerwick Relic

I vote for the Lerwick

Ah! The Saro Lerwick – one of my favourites too, but only because I like lost causes – it must have been hated by those who had no choice but to fly in them 🙁

Many years ago I was on holiday with my parents near Oban, when a flying boat propeller was brought into the harbour by a trawler – snagging such relics off Oban was apparently not an unusual occurrence but apparently most such lumps of scrap, as they were seen, were tossed back – this one it seems was well and truly snagged in the nets & the boat owner wanted compensation, so brought it in for proof!

Being a member of a group at the time that had a particular interest in flying boats I registered an interest in the relic with the receiver of wreck – the boat owner had pound signs in his eyes! – and left it to due processes.

Anyway to keep it short – the prop was identified as being from a Lerwick and a likely candidate was traced from the position it was snagged, the info was passed to the appropriate authorities and a few months later I was granted title – don’t know how the fisherman fared with his claim though. I did this on behalf of the group who had been very interested in it – but then failed to collect it despite numerous reminders 😡

To my knowledge the prop was never collected, by them or another group I contacted and remained in Caledonian MacBraynes cargo shed, where I had liberally sprayed it with oil. The shed was demolished several years ago and I had heard that the prop went to a local group with a small museum, but despite a number of attempts to contact them I have been unable to get any reply.

Does anyone know what happened to what was probably the largest surviving Lerwick artefact????

I think this thread is in danger of getting off the plot and degenerating into an argument between those who dig and those who think that this activity should be curtailed? The original question concerned human remains – NOT any perceived “scientific” interest that sites may or may not have and whether they should be protected from us amateurs! Though Creaking Door’s comments do seem to indicate that their is some common sense out there! 🙂

The answer here is pretty straightforward as far as th UK is concerned – With regard to crash sites the PMA Act has been used to protect military crash sites in the UK where human remains or dangerous ordnance may still be present and strictly prohibits any unauthorised disturbance of such sites for these reasons and these alone. Permits will NOT be issued if human remains are believed to be present – even if the crew have known graves as already stated – this may be due to there being documentary evidence that only partial remains were recovered. Aside from accidental / unexpected discoveries where the excavation must be shut down immediately – this effectively removes the need to worry about how we might or might not treat the remains – at least within the letter of the law.

I agree with Resmoroh in so far that the excavation of human remains is not really an area that “enthusiasts” should be involving themselves in lightly – such activity requires formal training & experience as he quite rightly says. However I do not see that this should automatically be the preserve of “professional archaeologists” either – they may have the anatomical knowledge to recognise what they are looking at and how it should fit together, but virtually none that I have spoken to / worked with have any idea regarding the nature of crash sites, the damage a crash does to human remains or the importance of recording surrounding artefacts to identify crew positions etc.

As far as I am aware the need to consult “County Archaeologists” is to do with recording sites on the local Sites and Monuments Registers as recommended after consultation between the MOD, BAAC & English Heritage and the main purpose is in fact to ensure that no other archaeological remains are likely to be disturbed. It just happens that coincidentally (and perhaps unfortunately) the SMR Registrar seems to often be the County Archaeologist and this has led to much confusion and attempts by such officials to curb our activities – Not that they seem to be particularly interested in anything as modern as an aircraft crash site, but that they seem dislike people who want to dig large holes in the landscape (IMO only!!!:().

Re official war graves generally, I doubt that archaeologists have any mandate to excavate / disturb them no matter what there age? However over the years many “lost” war graves have been found and relocated to designated cemeteries and in the past some cemeteries have been closed and moved – probably allowing opportunities for their study by archaeologists at such times. However, there seems to be a whole plethora of documentaries on television at the moment involving a group who excavate sites in Europe – mainly from WW1 – I understand that all of this group have “professional” training and whilst the shows are, I confess, fascinating I do feel a little uncomfortable at the excavation of soldier’s remains for “entertainment”! Also it is not clear how far their activities constitute any formal archaeological study.

Finally with regard to Time Team – I have worked with them after they contacted me (and others) to find a site suitable for an episode – See: A-26 Inavders – Warton – They did have a very strict set of criteria – one of which was that there must be no chance of any human remains being present. I got the impression that this was mainly to avoid red tape and any chance of the dig being shut down whilst thousands of pounds worth of hired plant equipment, film crew, cast and logistics staff were on site.

Fuel tank

Photo of the fuel tank here Must get around to visiting the memorial next time we are in the area too!

Lost canopies

When researching Supermarine Attacker WA535 – which crashed at Winwick near Warrington on the 5th February 1953 I recall the AIB report mentioned that the canopy frame was found some weeks later in a local farmyard. It seems that whilst suffering from suspected anoxia the pilot had jettisoned it probably in an attempt to bail out – the report also stated he had not received proper instruction on the ejection seat bail out procedure, if I recall correctly. Anyway, it seems that the farmer had found it pretty much intact in one of his fields and failing to realise its significance, he had smashed the perspex to use as firelighters!

Firefly?

I have an excavated Firefly I Throttle assembly (MB688 crashed on 17th August 1945) – sorry no photo at the moment, butl I can say is I don’t recognise this one – Sorry.