Yes, I agree. But if they weren’t at Millom they would be on the way to the smelter by now.
These airframes are now saved and will be restored and/or passed on to other collectors. Such is the grass-roots nature of aircraft preservation it is the little guys who kept many a cockpit section or other such part in their garage or on their driveway which allowed survival of the component. It’s not the end of the world – it’s just a new beginning.
There’s many an airframe saved and still around because someone had the courage (and the means) to say yes – and not take too long agonising over the decision.
You will find many aircraft which have survived by people putting their money where there mouth is and saving it – some of which are last examples of the type. Outside on the grass is preferable to the melting pot any day!
It is just unfortunate that it doesn’t look too good the way they are at the moment but this can, and will, be improved.

Anon

Well said!!! 🙂

Car Boot finds

As Luftwaffe aircraft seemed to have managed to avoid falling out of the sky over Lancashire during WW2, my few German relics have mainly turned up on car-boot sales 😀

Firstly a set of negatives of photos taken on a “liberated” German airfield, including photos of intact Me262s and a variety of other aircraft, some damaged some not – unfortunately I lent these to another enthusiast to do some prints – and am still waiting for their return – Steve! :dev2: However as there were no prints and the stall holder had no idea what they were of, I only parted with 50p!

The second was a Luftwaffe officer’s forage cap, still with insignia for £4.50 – the stall was being filmed for one of those dire boot sale treasures TV programs and they were busy enthusing on camera about a horrible piece of sylvac pottery – when I walked straight in front of the camera & picked the cap up (didn’t see the camera Guv – honest! :diablo: – but I HAD spotted the cap from 20 feet away:D ). Been told its repro & asking £7 the stall holder said as he resumed smiling for the camera – I continued to ignore the film crew & haggled – Its totally spot on and genuine, well worn from being folded when carried in an aircraft – wonder where it has been? It now in the museum at Millom

Finally a mystery item – a small periscope made of solid Perspex with a bonded glass viewing lens, to improve clarity & resist scratching I assume – I was given it by a very honest individual who told be he had taken it from a shot down German aircraft near Manchester – I have no reason to disbelieve him – other things he told me were spot on and he wanted no money for it. I will try to find it and post a photo.

I mean if the 1944 crash investigation removed it from the site, it could have ended up in private hands along the way.

Yes the remains were removed to Warton for examination – However They didnt just give bits away! Burtie was very popular on the base & his loss felt very deeply, they would not have wanted the bits ending up as souveniers.

In the case of the Freckelton disaster they went to great lengths to dispose of the remains of the aircraft so this would not happen & I would feel the same probably happened in this case.

I recall the seller mentioning in an email to me some time ago, that the “serial” no is marked somewhere on the inside of the canopy frame – I may not recall correctly but I think “in pencil” was mentioned? – I was not convinced as the damage is not consistant with the force of the impact + the starboard wing folded in flight and struck the canopy with considerable force, probably killing Burtie at that point.

Finally there was an intense fire at the crash site, which was difficult for emergency vehicles to access, so the fueslage was completely destroyed before it could be extinguised – our dig certainly produced exvidence to support this.

Bristol Freighter Mk.21 G-AICS

Full casualty list here: http://www.peakdistrictaircrashes.co.uk/awayg-aics.htm

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Do All Three!

Hi Moggy

I Have been to all three. including “La Coupole” before it became a museum (whoops my age slipping out there 😀 ). I would say all have their merits, depends on what type of experience you are looking for?

“La Coupole” is definitely the best presented and professional museum – if lots of AV presentations and slick displays are your thing then it is great – we gave the cinema part a miss as two young kids interest was wearing a bit thin by the time we got there – the rockets worked for them and I think the V1 was either real or pretty convincing! The only thing that spoilt it was the fact that so much of it was excavated purely to create the museum as construction had barely reached the stage of hollowing out the dome when the site was abandoned – I also visited when they were doing this and the amount of material they removed was staggering. One of the best bits for me was that they had recovered the original “U-boat engine” generating plant from a local factory, that had been using it since the war, and reinstalled it in its original location – now if the could get it running as well….. :rolleyes:

Watten would probably be my favourite & I have to confess to having dragged the family around it several times – not quite true as they were quite happy to go – though the weather each time was good. The audio presentations are perhaps a bit dated now, but echoing as they do through the massive concrete structure they do create quite an atmosphere. There are also plenty of relics lying about the place, which I like – several dug aircraft engines, some from bombers lost on raids on the site. A cattle truck used to transport the slave labourers who built it. There was a rusting collection of V1 remains, which was a bit unusual and in the foyer a V2 engine from the Dora site. On one visit we also noted a Biber midget submarine being prepared, though it may not have been for this site as I think any link would be a bit tenuous to say the least? Inside is truly awe inspiring, not least the huge bomb proof doors, one of which they have got partially working. If any criticism could be levelled, it is that they have not done more inside as the space seems wasted – There was one point where they had flood-lit a lower flooded level revealing all sorts of submerged equipment still lying where it was abandoned.

Finally – Mimoyecques – The London gun – perhaps the least professional museum – though we don’t mind that! We also visited the nearby Batterie Todt – Atlantic Wall Museum at Wissant at the same time (Yes married & two kids!;) ). Mimoyecques was still a worthwhile visit and very atmospheric, but the Americans did a very good job of demolition at the end of the war and aprt from the tunnel system, not a lot is left. Again the scale is truly impressive – & it is pretty cold in the tunnels – However there were few actual exhibits to see inside, other than some underground railway paraphernalia and the very badly corroded remains of the Spitfire, recovered from a local beach – I asked what could be done to preserve it & was met by a shrug and told when it falls apart, they would go and dig up another one! I do have to say it is some years since my visit here and it had only recently been opened, so perhaps things have improved?

Hi Exmpa

By necessity & through experience 🙁 I have acquired a fairly basic working knowledge of the firearms laws relating to what we occasionally find – This has led to a good working relationship with the local police Firearms Licensing Department.

But as you say “the police themselves are not very good on firearms law” and the incident I mentioned occurred when the officer I normally deal with was on long term sick leave. A junior officer, obviously with a different interpretation of the law and absolutely no idea what a Hispano Mk1 was, took it upon themselves to do things “by the book” and certainly succeeded in getting me (and my wife!) seriously worried! This individual decided that a section 5 firearm was just that and there was no provision for it to be otherwise – In order to try to prevent the immediate confiscation and destruction of a particularly fine (if rather bent) pair of Hispanos, I arranged for them to be delivered to a gunsmith with section 5 clearance to be deactivated – It was this action that led to the threat of arrest. At this point it appears that a senior officer intervened and the situation was held in abeyance until the return of the officer I normally dealt with – as the other officer admitted, my usual contact was the only one who knew what I was talking about! On his return the guns were inspected and all declared to have ceased to be firearms in any case, making the deactivation completely unnecessary. I received a full official apology and the junior officer concerned was moved to a different department.

With regard to your suggestion of giving advance warning of an excavation likely to recover weapons – We did just this for our Time Team project – The aforementioned police department were more than happy with this and in light of my previous relationship with them, they did not feel it necessary to even send an officer to observe (which I think disappointed my contact, who would have loved to attend!). We also were obliged to have representatives of EOD on site and we also asked them for written assurance that any weapons found would be retained by us on the understanding that they would be inspected and if necessary passed to a to a gunsmith with section 5 clearance to be deactivated – this proved to be more problematical 🙁 EOD agreed to this, but with conditions – that they checked and cleared the guns as free of ammunition first (fair enough) and that they would prefer to transport them straight to the aforesaid gunsmith for compulsary deactivation – effectively taking the police out of the equation and ignoring the relevant section of the firearms laws that you quote (not so fair!).

As EOD’s presence was obligatory due to the film production company’s rules, we had no choice but to accept. Whilst I have every admiration for the important and dangerous job that EOD carry out – What happened next proved very disappointing for all of us involved in the project. To cut a long story very short, The guns were clear of ammunition as none had been carried on the aircraft’s last flight – However EOD confiscated all three guns found during the filming (two still mounted in their complete turret!) and following several requests to return them as per our agreement, they were delivered, unannounced, to our museum – Each having been blown to pieces using semtex (no sign of the turret) – NO satisfactory explanation was ever given.

These examples can only serve to show what a minefield our current laws already are, when even those directly enforcing them are unclear as to their coverage and interpretation. The home office itself has stated we have the some of the strictest legislation in the world – would it be too much to hope that they will use this opportunity to sort out the mess that makes up our Firearms laws, so that they can be enforced properly, freeing up the authorities to target those actually committing these crimes, instead of spending much of their time hassling those who are abiding by the law?

One glimmer of hope might be the following quote?

“However, as any ban would potentially affect collectors including museums, the government will first consult with enthusiasts.
Ms Smith said the government would seek to balance protection for the public with the rights of responsible collectors.

Ministers hope to find a compromise that will allow genuine curators to collect legitimate firearms while giving police and enforcement agencies the power to remove black-market guns from the streets”

We shall see!