Perhaps this one would be an easier option?

Damn – I was hoping to keep the wraps on that one !!! 😀

Please note my comments regarding difficulty of getting to view the site were not intended as any sort of sleight at our police forces or the group in whose interest it is that the site remains under surveillance – I would be doing the same thing! I was simply expressing disappointment that because, as it is the negative elements of our hobby that seem to get the attention, it would probably be unwise for me to visit the site.

My fears regarding the ultimate fate of the airframe have now been allayed together with an invitation concerning the possibility of officially visiting the site. My comments were simply made as I saw the situation and we are all fortunate to have a medium such as this forum to air our views (even if ill informed) and allow those involved to set the record straight.

I have to say that certain comments that seem to have resulted from my post are definitely not my views and I feel this forum is not the place to air them.

So they can finally claim to have found something?:rolleyes:

They don’t have a lot to show for the time and money spent looking for Earhart’s Electra or Nungesser & Coli’s L’Oiseau Blanc.

The people who populate the WIX don’t seem to hold them in high regard.

Didnt want to be the first to say this! But certainly appears that way – Did also note on their press release I get the impression that they are now looking for sponsorship for the project – Nothing like a good solid (looking!!!) warbird to refill the coffers (IMO of course). Not sure about the use of Aviation Archeology projects as business ventures – but hey I may be the one whose doing it wrong! 😮

What I did find a bit disturbing was the way a lot of people seem to be assuming that anyone who now goes near the site is a potential theif – I live within a a couple of hours drive of the site and would love to go and record it photographically before any attempt is made to “recover” it – but fear registration nos etc are likely to be taken? and should some total pratt go and try anything, I could end up a suspect simply because of my involvement in the hobby – So I will have to stay away 🙁 .

I have to agree with Alan – it obviously spent several years immersed in the sea before it ever got covered by sand – hence the apparent covering of sea life + this is probably not the first time it has been exposed – just the current interest in these things means it has got the attention this time. I suspect it will be in a pretty dire state despite appearance. But should it remain exposed then obviously something organised has to be done before it ends up piecemeal on eBay. If they do pull it off, it will be a shame if it ends up as little more than a pattern/provenance for a “rebuild”, but being realistic, conserving an airframe that has spent so long in the sea is going to be a nightmare – Not impossible though as there are those who have persevered and achieved amazing results.

It was a bit shorter than I expected, as I thought originally the whole “History Detectives” programme would be on the one topic, but then I haven’t caught many of the previous shows, so didn’t know the format – I did think they managed to cram quite a lot into the time though and felt the treatment and respect accorded to the crew was well handled.

It was a shame though that they hadn’t filmed the actual recovery (though the group involved may not agree!) as the amateur video footage did not reproduce well at all and there was little of it seemed – Such an epic recovery really deserved to have been recorded professionally IMO.

The producer – Brendan Hughes also did our Time Team project and I could see he had listened to a few of our comments – though they still couldn’t seem to get away from the old TT “mystery to solve” element theme. I thought Steve Moss came over well and certainly in a more professional light than he got on our TT project – though to be fair he was thrown in at the deep end on our project and was given little background before they started filming on that one – This time he seemed to have been much better informed and someone had clearly done their homework – Dumfries and Galloway group probably!!!;)

As for the MOD being “pinned down by paperwork” on the issue of 4000 crash sites in the UK – why would they be? They don’t know where most of them are now and it certainly doesn’t seem to concern them – it is up to groups to research and prove they have the right crash site before they get a permit – it is the Aviation Archaeologists that are doing all the work and filling in the gaps in their records!

Comet P17Holmes(yes that’s its name:D )is not normally visible to the naked eye “exploded” about 5 days ago & can now be seen in the NNE about an hour after sunset.

Sorry Radpoe Meteor, but my 13 year old son says “would that be 17Pholmes?” :p

Crash crews used large Asbestos fire blankets these may turn up, however if you identify it, it has to be specially bagged and is then special hazardous waste which can only be disposed of at about 2 locations in the UK which is why removal is so costly.

We encountered two such Fire blankets whilst investigating the crash site of P-51B 43-6635 which crashed whilst attempting an emergency landing at Knowsley Park on 16th February 1944, sadly resulting in the death of its pilot Flight Officer Eugene S. Rybaczek. They were amazingly intact and still bore legible air ministry markings (the aircraft was American, but the landing ground RAF) – fortunately they were well waterlogged and were safely and correctly bagged up for disposal – seemed a shame really!

To what end?

I’d be interested to know what aircraft/engine type was being dug?

Of course they are unique, irreplaceable and ‘valuable’ to those of us who value them and, if sold, would have a ‘cash’ market value but what more can we say about them?

Are they the only surviving examples of that aircraft/engine type? Could they help in an airworthy (or static) restoration? Would they allow drawings to be made if none existed, materials to be specified, or manufacturing techniques discovered if these are unknown? Do they hold vital information about how the aircraft was lost?

I’d suggest that the answer to all these questions is probably ‘no’.

The Aircraft in question was a de Havilland Hornet – so I suppose the answer to some of the above is actually YES! 😮 As usual full details of our research, the dig and finds will appear on our website in due course – I know I have quite a bit of catching up to do on the website, but this is purely a hobby, I receive no funding and DO NOT SELL FINDS, I have a full time job and have just moved into a 200+ year old house to restore (not to mention running a very temperamental 30 year old Land Rover a couple of classic cars, a Motorhome and two modernish everyday cars that I also maintain). So a big thanks to Alan for taking on the cleaning and sorting for this dig

Wherever possible we do communicate with those we know have a specific interest in any aircraft we are investigating, and in this case Dave Collins has been kept up to date at all stages of this project and will be visiting to view the finds and will of course be welcome to any fittings from the scrap pile – however Dave be warned – this aircraft hit the ground VERY, VERY HARD! 🙁

Many Uk high ground wrecks were robbed by scrap dealers and locals re using bits for fences(P38 Plynlimon), farm trailers( C47 Prescellis), shooting butts (Blenheim at Bleasdale)etc long before the collectors got involved. Other items were just taken by souvenir hunters.

Damn – never checked those shooting butts! :diablo:

Seriously though, a local scrap dealer cleared many of the Lancashire HGW sites in the 60s using an ex-military tracked vehicle – though he was good enough to leave us something – mainly U/C legs as these were not worth his effort. He cleared some eight engines from the Garstang C-54 and most of the Burnley B-24. Also walkers have accounted for a lot, such as the Pendle Hill P-47 where fragments could be found in both directions along the track to and from the Nick of Pendle which passes the crash site – dropped as their finders curiosity waned no doubt. 🙁

There is nothing we can do about the past, but Garry, I will concede, does have a point however, as what is left really should not be subject to such haphazard removal with no safeguards, though sadly we do not live in a perfect world.

:confused: I have an interesting comment from Andy Saunders ref the Fort Perch Rock museum – Bearing in mind previous posts about museums, recovery digging and items lost in the mist of time, perhaps someone at the Warplane Wreck Investigation Group can answer Andy’s question ??

I think a lot of people have been confused as to exactly what the state of play regarding this museum is. Dougie senior, whose vision the museum was, sadly died recently and I understand his son? is now owner? and intends to keep the museum open.

It was as far as I was aware a privately run concern and Dougie Senior tried all sorts of ventures to try and make it at least self financing – unfortunately this seemed to entail the aviation side of the museum being given less and less space – certainly getting larger exhibits, such as engines in, always was a bit of a problem.

However myself and several other enthusiasts have, over the past few years become increasingly alarmed at the rate at which the aviation archaeology exhibits seemed to be disappearing and no satisfactory explanation seemed to be forthcoming – I think perhaps rather than getting into a situation of repeating rumours, some comments from those actually involved with the museum could help to clear up the confusion and put people’s minds at rest?