Now this is a coincidence? There is even one on ebay!!”

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-or-WW2-shrapnel-mustard-gas-shell-no-gas-included-Livens-projector-bomb-/281248085755?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item417bb136fb

Seller says he also found a whole one and called the authorities!

Interesting prop advert…
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Aluminium-Drei-Blatt-Propeller-/111018617455?pt=Transportwesen&hash=item19d939aa6f

Well it got your attention Ian! For its artistic merit, of course! 😉

First thoughts are condolences to the family of the plant operator killed and hope those injured make a full recovery. I agree with Moggy’s comments on speculation, but something does seem a bit odd about this incident, though of course we only have the “facts” so far published in the press. Travelling through Germany last year and the year before I did note quite a few very large “recycling” centers on the outskirts of several towns, where every form of waste and demolition rubble go for processing and wonder if this is such a site? As others have said you would think German authorities and building/demolition companies would be a little more clued up than most and therefore pretty sensitive to anything large rusty and cylindrical – if indeed this item of ordnance was? But there is a heck of a lot of construction work going on in Germany at the moment – seems the whole of the autobahn network is being rebuilt and upgraded! Out of interest, can anyone recognise the device on the end of the diggers arm? looks more like a concrete breaking claw used in demolition than an digging bucket to me?

Beat me to it Ian – & now why MG15 parts, even mock-up seem to go for silly money – too many Starwars fans wanting to build their own Imperial blasters! 🙁

I recall many years ago a private WW1 museum in the vicinity of Notre-Dame de Lorette IIRC had a very corroded in-line WW1 engine, I seem to recall the caption said it was from an Albatross and on asking the owner where it came from he said it was found during major road works in the Arras area – my French is not good so I probably missed any detail as he was quite talkative – I commented it was an unusual find and he agreed saying what little was found of WW1 aircraft was usually in very poor condition.

Looks very fragile – but they have obviously done a remarkable job on the recovery and got it up in one piece – I bet tensioning the lifting lines on that support frame was fun!!!

Seem to recall visiting one actually at Falaise – in an old 1930s concrete utility building IIRC – remember being amazed how the had got a MkIV inside! Don’t rcall any aircraft wreckage, or if there was they did not make much of it – other than that it was pretty good – will have the leaflet somewhere as I keep them all, but would probably take ages to find – it was probably 15 years ago so may be its gone now?

Update – Ah! – did a quick Google – its the Aout 44 Museum http://www.euro-t-guide.com/See_Coun/France/F_W/F_See_Aout_44_Falaise_1-1.htm – Looks like the MkIV is outside now – I did wonder about the floor loadings!!! Though this site suggests it now closed! 🙁

You mean like the programme about the A-26 wrecks they hauled out of a marsh a few years back, most of which ended up in a skip IIRC?

Interesting thread – have just spent half an hour reading through it this evening, as I wasn’t aware this had been resurrected and actually having first hand experience of uncovering a pretty much intact aircraft that has been stewing in salt water conditions for some 60 years I feel I am at least qualified to comment!

Mike – sorry but your statement seems to be intended to imply something that I am not altogether happy with. No A-26 wrecks were hauled out of the marsh – one basically complete if somewhat squashed A-26 was uncovered, professionally recorded by qualified archaeologists, one engine and one gun turret were removed and it was re-interred under a purpose constructed lagoon for wading birds – where it remains to this day. Also a number of isolated broken off parts were uncovered, recorded and recovered, including a tail section that I have to say I never wanted recovered, as I had seen it uncovered several years before and knew just how far the corrosion had progressed already and realised that successful conservation was highly unlikely.

We had made optimistic plans to recover what we hoped would be an intact aircraft, including recovery from the marsh, transport, undercover workshop facilities etc etc but realistically we were also prepared to be flexible and the airframe once uncovered was clearly beyond lifting, let alone conservation – it would simply have destroyed it, Much of the apparently intact airframe was actually the heavy gauge duralumin “armour” applied to the cockpit, fuselage and inner wing areas of the A-26 to provide some limited protection against ground fire in its role as a low level attack aircraft. The sections were not even still attached, but held in place by the mud and the skinning below was more holes than alclad.

So we decided it was best left where it lay and we only removed an already detached engine and the gun turret was removed by EOD. We moved on to the second aircraft after filming, which was a more traditional site for us “diggers” – i.e. a relatively high energy impact followed by severe post-impact fire, so we knew only components would remain. This allowed us to recover some recognisable parts that were fairly straightforward to conserve and later display at the museum.

So overall, relatively little was recovered – certainly not a couple of A-26 wrecks hauled out of a marsh! The tails section pretty much disintegrated as it was recovered – it was cobbled back together as an outside exhibit at the museum, but defied all attempts to slow the rot – it retained its shape from a distance, but all the supporting members were already de-laminating when it was recovered and the skinning was like knitted fog – when the museum closed it proved impossible to lift even in sections as there was no strength in the structure and the only part we could save was the vertical fin, which we still have.

As for the rest – two R2800 engines were recovered and are in storage and have stabilised as far as they are going to – the props have survived well and they are still impressive pieces – any museum out there want to have them on loan for display – please pm me! The guns were confiscated by EOD and demolished – no further comment. The smaller parts from the second A-26 are mostly with me and other members of our group in store and available for display should the opportunity arise. Some parts did disappear from the museum including the bomb bay, including all the stainless steel bomb racks – but sadly shiny bits often attract magpies!

If the programme wasn’t made the items would continue to rot in the ground until they no longer existed. The fact that something was recovered -a successful programme was made about it and the stories of the unfortunate crews highlighted means that far more people got an appreciation of the sacrifices made on our behalf.
In terms of the A-26’s themselves – I cannot recall what was able to be preserved -I am sure Nick will be along shortly with chapter and verse.

OK that’s the chapter and verse out of the way David – Yes the programme was successful I think – from our point of view we were involved in a fascinating project working with professional archaeologists, most of whom were approachable and we had some interesting discussions. The finished programme allowed millions to see, albeit briefly, what no-one would have ever seen otherwise – it allowed us to tell the story of a small group of otherwise forgotten airman who paid the ultimate price – not in combat, but in an all to frequent accident – the contributory factors to which were known and should have been better communicated to those flying these aircraft – I understand it was one of the most expensive Time Team shows of all time, but no doubt judging by the frequency it seems to appear of satellite channels it had been a financial success too?

The P-38? Well I recall being given the location some 25 years ago and as I worked as a delivery driver then often travelling around North Wales, I stopped off at the beach one lunchbreak with a pair of binoculars and could just about make out what looked to be a prop blade sticking out of the water below the low water line – further out than I expected! Could I recover it – I should think I could put a team together yes – would I recover it – afraid the answer is a definite no – I can see it all going badly very quickly – people’s expectations are I feel a bit like the Dornier – unrealistic – they see what looks to be surviving metal – not the holes, crystallized corrosion products and sealife that probably make up most of the surface. It has merit as a relic and could possibly be preserved as that, but even that would be risky and you could still end up with two engines, a pile of twisted crumpled paper thin alloy and the condemnation of thousands of armchair experts!