LokeSo, in the end you could have:
- Common engine[*]Common radar back end (i.e. APG-81 back end) but different front ends with different dish sizes having different T/R counts[*]Common MAWS/RWR[*]Common IRST[*]Common display avionics
Excellent suggestion, however I perhaps this list could also add “common composite materials”?
AFAIK One of the important selling points of the JSF is the advanced composite materials being used.
LokeHow hard would it be for the fighter to lock on to an incoming missile and shoot it down automatically with gun and missiles?
Gripen NG with IRIS-T is said to have anti-missile capabilities, and I am sure other modern fighters with similar missiles can do the same.
However you run out of missiles quite rapidly…
Loke@ Loke
that may be interesting as the new hungarian politics changes (extremist to say the least) may pose some ethical problems to the swedes
Due to pressure from EU I think those changes will be limited however things could go bad still, and Sweden may by coincidence get the same ethical problems that the French are already having when they try to sell Rafale to dictatorships in the ME… Ghaddafi was one prospective customer until quite recently as I am sure you know.
Since the French have a long experience in dealing with such situations perhaps they can offer some advice… :diablo:
LokeHungary to extend Gripen lease by ten years, says DefMin
The Hungarian government plans to extend the lease of its Gripen fighter aircraft by ten years, and the Swedish government is expected to decide on the issue in late January, Defence Minister Csaba Hende said on Friday.
The extension is a national interest because the lease will expire in 2016 and there is no realistic alternative solution, Mr Hende said. Extending the lease until 2026 will save the Hungarian state gross HUF 63bn, he added.
Expert consultations about the extension of the lease ended on December 20 last year and the Hungarian government approved the decision on Wednesday, Mr Hende said.
The 14 Gripen fighter jets play a key role in maintaining the sovereignty of Hungary’s airspace, Mr Hende said.
http://www.bbj.hu/politics/hungary-to-extend-gripen-lease-by-ten-years-says-defmin_62205
LokeTo be honest guys, I dunno if Japan would officially chose F-35 due to its strike prowess.
That would be a big change for them in terms of doctrine and military posture/attitude.
That is why I’m quite miffed – in terms of an air defense fighter, Typhoon is comfortably superior to F-35.
Well, there is another possible explanation — that the above statement does not reflect realities and that the F-35 (once it is finalized) actually will be a better a2a fighter than the Typhoon.
LokeI still feel “somewhat” confident in the F-35 (more so than LO and several others) however yes I am also much more worried about it than F3.
The point is that the F-35 is supposed to be the replacement of F-16.
That means cheap enough to be bought and operated in huge numbers by the US, NATO countries and other allies.
The economical crisis is NOT coming at a good time for the F-35.
F3, technical capabilities are all fine and good but economical realities also play a role. A combination of increased costs, delayed development and crisis could potentially reduce the number of F-35 so much that it does not become the F-16 replacement it was supposed to be.
LokeTurkey orders 2 F-35, not 6 as originally stipulated:
http://www.ssm.gov.tr/anasayfa/hizli/duyurular/PressReleases/Sayfalar/5Ekim2012SS%C4%B0K.aspx
LokeFunny:
why can’t we at least agree on the following:
1. Both Rafale and Typhoon are great 4.5 gen fighters; both were shortlisted in India on the basis of their capabilities (as opposed to e.g. SH and F-16).
2. Both are expensive, and neither have (so far) had any great success on the export market.
LokeSix fighters seem to be on the low side.
12 fighters however may be sufficient in particular if they are Gripen 😉
– During 2009 they took part in NATO QRA – Quick Readiness Alert over the Baltic countries. With only 14 Gripen aircraft in the Air Force they managed not only to have two aircraft plus one spare in high alert over the Baltic Sea. At the same time they had two more aircraft plus one spare in NATO QRA over the Czech Republic! The aircraft in the Baltic QRA performed more Aplha Alerts than any other NATO country that has taken part in the Baltic QRA. This is good example of the availablility and easy maintenance of the Gripen. The German Air Force took over after the Czech Republic with their new Eurofighters. They could however not get their aircraft working after landing so they asked the Czech to keep their Gripen at the base for another day. A few days later the Eurofighters were replaced with old F-4 Phantoms!
http://notoriusunpublicus.blogspot.com/2011/09/czech-republic-going-strong.html
Austria with 15 Typhoons seems to be saying they cannot do anything similar… and also note the comment above regarding the German Typhoons… :diablo:
My conclusion: You cannot do much useful with 8 Typhoon, and it will be horribly expensive, however with 14 Gripen you can perform QRA in two countries at the same time!
LokeIts not an issue of being better than the F-22 as it is now in 2012 and in the future but rather how the understanding of NCW and the benefits it brings a fighter informed the conception of the two different aircraft when their flight performance level was specified. The development and proving of the effectiveness of NCW in the 15 years between the F-22 and F-35 has allowed the later to relax its kinematic requirement and still be effective in the network enabled battle space.
Interesting to look at what LM (according to flightglobal) is considering for a “6. gen a/c”.
Featuring an F-22-like nose, an unusually contoured wing and nearly flat canted tails, the concept suggests a new level of speed and agility.
“Simply removing the pilot from an aircraft or introducing incremental improvements in signature and range does not constitute a generational leap in capability,” Lockheed said in response to Flightglobal’s questions.
“These improvements are already being looked att for our fifth generation fighters,” the company added.
Instead, possible technologies for a next-generation fighter should include “greatly increased speed”, more range and new features like self-healing structures and multi-spectral stealth, the company said.
LokeI doubt it would be wise for Bulgaria to buy Typhoon. They should talk to Austria first. Austrian AF is struggling to get enough money to keep their Typhoons flying. How will much poorer Bulgaria manage? Also 8 a/c is really too little.
They should also talk to Hungary and Czhech Republic, both seem quite content with their Gripens…
LokeSaab complained (and rightly so) about the economical analysis of Gripen NG.
For the performance part, they were very unhappy about the conclusion but I think they accepted it in the end.
Only a VLO plane like the F-35 could meet ALL the norwegian requirements.
It seems to me that Saab did not believe a VLO a/c would be required. They were wrong.
(and no the VLO requirement was not spelled out in the “official” requirements when the RFP was floated but nevertheless in reality it was there).
Gripen NG did not fare well in the simulated scenarios with the hypothetical PAK FA.
LokeNorwegian evaluation included simulated scenarios including a2a scenarios with F-35 and a future PAK FA.
F-35 was found to be very effective.
Does that mean that the Norwegian Air Force also has bought into the LM marketing? They do have access to classified information. In addition they have experts that can draw up much more realistic scenarios than 99% of the people of this forum…
LokeAPG-81 first flew in an F35 in 2010…yes it’s km’s ahead of the others.
(In John Symonds alternative universe that is)
http://www.irconnect.com/noc/press/pages/news_releases.html?d=194881F- John must try harder when dealing with facts.
Relevant hard facts are difficult to find due to the fact that in the defence industry a lot of info is classified.
However it is a fact that a Thales spokesperson said that the 3 leading companies on AESA development in the world are: Raytheon, NG with Thales being third…
It is also a fact that a Selex spokesperson in response said that the 3 leading companies on AESA development in the world are: Raytheon, NG with Selex being third…
It is tempting to add 2+2 and suggest that the two leading companies on AESA radars are Raytheon and NG…
This is further supported by other sources e.g. UAE officials who found the Rafale AESA radars somewhat lacking compared to their F-16 radars.
Also some statements from the Norwegian evaluation of the F-35 indicates a certain “wow” factor. I have heard some statements (not in public) that I will not repeat here but all I can say is that the F-35 radar is very, very impressive.
There is more to F-35 than VLO.
LokeThe F-35 does not need to emit because it can leave that to somebody else; either an AWACS, an UCAV, or another F-35 (or a Typhoon! ;))
An F-35 will normally never operate in isolation but as part of a network.
Also one should not discount the sensor capabilities of the F-35. None of the 4.5 fighters can match it today, and small a/c like Rafale and Gripen will also not be able to match it tomorrow. Typhoon should be able to fit a quite large and powerful AESA however can it fit a system similar to EODAS? I don’t know.
Of course the Typhoon also does not need to emit. However if the two meet and both are supplied with radar data from e.g. an AWACS then (assuming that both AWACSes have the same performance) the F-35 will have a natural advantage due to VLO.
If both use AESA in LPI mode then F-35 will also have a clear advantage; for at least two reasons… 😉
If both fly silent and do not emit volunterily then the F-35 will still have an advantage due to strongly reduced IR signature and superior IR sensors.
Sign In
