5th generation;

1. Supersonic and improved agility over 4th gen
2. True multirole
3. Low frontal RCS and IR signature
4. Low level of pilot workload (Data-fusion & cockpit layout)
5. Some form of HMD
6. Turn-around at 75% of NATO minimum
7. Datalink
8. AESA radar

There I did it, now we know what the definitions means.

Disagree on “improved agility over 4th gen”; also disagree on 3; it should be Very low not just Low. To me that’s what is separating the 4.5 gen (Eurocanards + SH) and the real 5. gen fighters (F-22 and F-35).

It is a lof of extra costs and hassle to design an ac that is reducing the RCS significantly; everything has to go inside, you need to use special materials, and there are many other details that also cannot be seen.

In spite of these costs, all the F-35 partners, Japan, Israel, Russia, India, and China are all on the VLO “5. gen” bandwagon. There must be a reason….

The reason is probably higher survivability in many different scenarios.

Anyway if people are having a problem with “5. gen” then we can also use the “VLO fighter” as a term instead…. 😉

Loke – I think you may be misreading the piece. It’s not a high-low mix concept. The idea is that the LCC of the F-35 may reach a point where some nations find themselves with un-viably small numbers. They need a more affordable aircraft instead.

Google translate can sometimes confuse issues. The Danish original text is perhaps a bit clearer (and we Norwegians read Danish just perfectly after being “married” to Denmark for a period of 400 years 😉 )

However the word complement above should give you a hint. It does say complement and not replace.

After the sale to Switzerland sees Saab brand new market opportunities for the Gripen fighter aircraft. Pressed economy and prospects for very few fighters in the Air Force may be the way in, possibly in addition to F-35, says the Swedish company executives.

“We market still Gripen as a fighter that can stand alone. That we maintain. But while we can see that a number of partner countries maintain interest in the F-35, but then pushed the economy that they can not get the number of F-35 as they wish. There may well see the Gripen as the cheaper complement to F-35, “says Peter Nilsson.

This is one of Holland, as the Swedes have in mind. Holland must save more than seven billion dollars on defense in the coming years, but has a desire to buy up to 85 F-35-fighter. There are plans, however, postponed.

Also Brits have reduced the R-35-purchases – from 140 to perhaps only the 50. In Denmark, politicians are already gone from 48 to now 30 combat aircraft, but the government has proposed further cuts to save money.The number 16 has been reported in the media.

But the problem for the Defence and the politicians who still want a powerful Danish air force that can be sent out into the world, is that too few planes destroys the ability to participate in international operations, and the limit is approaching, as the number decreases. This is one experience in Austria, who bought 15 Eurofighter Typhoon.

“I have neither the pilots or flight enough to participate in international missions. It is simply impossible with so few planes and so little personnel, “said the Rupert Stadlhofer, Brigadier General and head of the Austrian air defense forces when ing.dk visited the air base in Zeltweg in July.
Saab stresses that you have not received official requests to deliver Gripen as a supplement to the F-35, but among others have talked with senior executives in several countries that have aired the idea.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=no&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fing.dk%2Fartikel%2F125289-saab-oejner-gripen-som-supplement-til-jsf

Interesting… I suggested already a few years back that Norway should consider a Hi-Lo mix of F-35 and Gripen NG. Due to the proximity to Sweden one could imagine basing the Norwegian NG’s in Sweden and outsource almost all operational aspects to the Swedes, with the additional bonus that it would give Norway one extra base (Norway is currently planning to operate all F-35 from one base only (!), most likely Ørlandet, and with a forward base in Bodø for QRA).

Tribes: “Flocking to” is not the same as “Have not dumped”.

Also, those nations signed on at delivery dates, and acquisition and operating costs, that were attractive but not real, and at a point where alternatives appeared equally immature.

OK, poor choice of words by me… however it does not change the facts; that none of the partners have pulled out, in spite of all the delays and cost increases, and two non-partners have signed on, in spite of the delays and cost increases. To me that says that there is still a strong belief in this program and in the F-35.

Of course if the delays keep piling up there is a breaking point but I think we are still far away from that.

BTW Norway is in the process of re-winging several of the old F-16, perhaps anticipating further F-35 delays…?

It certainly reinforces the idea that Eurofighter gave the JSF a good run for its money in Japan, the Japanese were able to extract every last concession from the winning bidder.

You lost me there…?

How many competitions has F-35 lost so far?

To me, it seems that F-35 is expected to become hugely capable, and that’s why countries are ordering it, in spite of all the delays, increase in cost, etc.

Unfortunately for the Eurocanards there is a small window of opportunity that is closing rapidly, when the F-35 gets ready the sales of 4.5 gen fighters are going to fall even further…

Dec. 29 (Bloomberg) — India will exceed its unprecedented borrowing target in the year ending March 31 as it attempts to close a budget shortfall amid slowing revenue collections, a finance ministry official said today.

The ministry will unveil a new calendar for borrowings on Jan. 2, the official said, declining to be identified before a public announcement. The government hasn’t finalized the size of additional borrowings, the official said.

Indian 10-year benchmark bond yields have jumped the most in Asia after Vietnam, as the government sold more debt to meet its target of keeping the budget gap to 4.6 percent of gross domestic product. The Reserve Bank of India has said the government must rein in borrowings to help check price gains and boost economic growth.

“The revenue front is not looking good and a pick-up in collections is unlikely this year,” said Prasanna Ananthasubramanian, a Mumbai-based economist at ICICI Securities Primary Dealership Ltd. He expects the budget deficit between 5.5 percent and 6 percent of GDP this year.

The yield on the 8.79 percent bonds due November 2021 rose six basis points, or 0.05 percentage point, to 8.54 percent at 3:53 p.m. in Mumbai. The rupee declined 0.7 percent to 53.4238 per dollar while the BSE India Sensitive Index, which has lost more than a fifth of its value this year, dropped 1.2 percent.

The government may borrow an additional 400 billion rupees ($7.5 billion), said N.S. Venkatesh, head of treasury at Mumbai-based IDBI Bank Ltd. He predicts the 10-year bond yield will climb to 8.70 percent if the extra borrowing is as he estimates.

Stock Slump

Achieving the goal to lower the government’s revenue shortfall to a four-year low of 4.6 percent by March “will not be easy” as a cooling economy curbs tax collections and state asset sales have stalled due to the fall in the stock markets, the finance ministry said this month. India expanded its annual borrowing program in September by 13 percent to a record 4.7 trillion rupees.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-29/india-to-exceed-its-record-borrowing-target-as-economy-slows.html

Will be interesting to see how the slowing economy will impact the MMRCA (if at all!).