LokeOverall, it has a ~700mm dish, with a TWT reportedly 2X the APG-65, which was around 4-5 Kw peak, so this should be around 10 Kw (peak) and around 2-3Kw Average – not bad at all. Consider for instance, that the Zhuk-ME of similar size has a 6Kw radar with 1.5 Kw average.
Teer,
The Gripen C/D radar has peak output of more than 10kW — are you sure that the Captor is not higher than 10 kW?
Or perhaps the 10kW figure is the official one … we are after all talking about military equipment and information on radars is quite sensitive information.
Anyway, I would be surprised if it’s not higher than 10kW — alternatively, perhaps the Gripen C/D radar (PS-05/A) is more powerful than what most people assume…
LokeWe are talking about fighter AESA radar which requires their own development.
http://www.selex-sas.com/EN/Common/files/SELEX_Galileo/Products/Vixen_500E.pdf
Vixen 500E is a compact, lightweight, AESA radar for Fighter and Lead-In Fighter Trainer aircraft.
Modes Available
Air-to-Air Modes
Track while scan Single target trackAir Combat Modes
- HUD search
- Vertical scan
- Slewable scan
- Boresight
Air-to-Surface modes
- Real beam ground map
- Sea Surface Search and Track
- Synthetic Aperture Radar mapping
- (standard and high resolution)
- Ground Moving Target Indicator
- Beacon interrogation
- Inverse Synthetic Aperture Radar Imaging Freeze Mode
Interleaved Modes
A number of situational awareness modes
As can see from the above the Vixen 500 is a fighter AESA radar with a2a and a2g modes. This radar is available as a commercial product already!
The Raven is also referred to as Vixen 1000 — it is a further development and significant enhancement of the Vixen 500.
LokeArthuro,
You have been told many many times that both Saab and Selex started working on AESA technology many years ago. You have seen the links in other threads.
Selex already has production AESA radars ready today, that you can buy!
It’s not like they started yesterday.
LokeLoke,
The issue is you take all your favorite manufacturer releases for granted. No wonder you get only positive news. If that was true why even bother with pre-production radars? There must be some reasons. Just a few dozens flights and so successful ?
Bottom line is that Gripen NG radar came under criticism as reported by 4 different sources : Istoe, Rezende,Correio Brasiliense for Brazil and Finally India.I am sure it will eventually work well. Just that the announced performances are certainly optimistic and that the timeline is tight. But in the end Selex will manage to field a modern radar.
1. I was referring to an official press release. A company like Selex cannot lie in press releases, not if they want to stay in business and out of trouble.
2. You are referring to unconfirmed rumors, some of which probably have the same source.
3. Selex has already fielded modern AESA radars… I suggest you visit their web page. Of course nobody can make their first AESA in a couple of years!
http://www.selex-sas.com/SelexGalileo/EN/Business/Products/Radar/index.sdo
I am pretty confident that Saab and Selex with their long experience with R&D on AESA radars will have no problems in fielding a pretty good radar in 2013…
LokeEdinburgh, 21st of April 2010
SELEX Galileo’s RAVEN supporting Gripen NG weapon system proving and demonstration programmeSELEX Galileo’s prototype of its Raven ES-05 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, the Raven 1000P, is playing a key role in the Saab Gripen Next Generation flight proving and demonstration programme.
The programme has been very successful, demonstrating radar modes in flight as well as showing the effectiveness of the SELEX Galileo and Saab team in integrating the radar into the weapon system and proving real capability in very short timescales.
Both air-to-air and air-to-ground modes have been integrated with great success and the expected performance has been achieved. Particular focus was placed on the air-to-ground capability and Raven 1000P produced excellent medium and high resolution SAR imagery at long ranges.
Trials will continue and capability insertion will take place at the appropriate points in the development schedule.
So both a2a and a2g modes, as well as SAR images were demonstrated already several months ago — Selex may have an advantage in that they have been producing AESA radars for some time.
Seems they are keeping their timelines, and delivering the goods..
Lokedont gripen have a pre production demo one now ?
Well yes, it’s a prototype. The final product should be ready next year.
Perhaps Selex/Saab use a different terminology than Thales?
Seems strange that Thales is producing AESA radars in August this year that will be installed next year….Not exactly Just In Time production…
Perhaps that’s why some people call those early units “pre-production”?
LokeFact is the gripen NG radar performance is criticized in the Brazilian evaluation.
Again, perhaps it’s more the fact that the radar is not yet in production that is the main worry, not the actual performance of the radar.
Congratulations to Thales with the delivery of their first pre-production radar — Saab/Selex will reach the same point in 2011, well in time for any deliveries to India.
LokeAbsolutely. The IAF could not remain without a word after this leakage. Now what will be interesting is to see whether this leakage had good fundations or not.
I bet that this leak that came to the journalist hears is not totally unfunded but as usual they made up a conclusion too fast based on partial truth. Certanily they didn’t have the bird’s eyes view on all the parameters to be accurate. They just have jumped to the small pieces of info they were given.
I would not be surprised if it turns out that the “weak radar” of NG turns out to not be so weak after all…
If the IAF has concerns on the Saab/Selex radar then it is probably more around the fact that it’s still under development. The positive thing about that is of course that once it’s ready it will be more modern than some of the AESA competitors… :diablo:
LokeThe official spokesman of the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) has downplayed media reports that France’s Dassault Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon have emerged as favourites to win India’s Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) contest.
Speaking to Jane’s on 10 August, Sitanshu Kar said no decisions have been made about the programme following the MoD’s receipt of a comprehensive trial report on the six rival fighters competing for the INR420 billion (USD9.1 billion) contract.
Some media outlets in India had earlier reported that the results of the MMRCA technical evaluations, which concluded in mid-2010, had prompted the Indian Air Force (IAF) to recommend to the MoD that the shortlist be narrowed down to just two aircraft: the Rafale and Typhoon.
The other platforms competing for the 126-aircraft tender are Boeing’s F/A-18E/F, Lockheed Martin’s F-16IN, the Russian United Aircraft Corporation’s MiG-35 and Saab’s JAS 39 Gripen NG.
LokeDon’t forget Tejas. That’s supposed to provide the quantity, & at the same time promote local industry. I’ve always thought Gripen is handicapped by being too similar to Tejas.
Well as a certain poster here consistently tries to promote, a future version of the Tejas should be able to match the Gripen NG and therefore meet the requirements of the MRCA — the problem is of course that it will still take quite some time for the Tejas to reach such a level. In the meantime an a/c is needed.
I think the problem is really with this whole idea of a “light-medium-heavy” mix.
The “medium” will either be quite similar to a future Tejas (if it’s Gripen NG) or similar to the SU-30 (if it’s e.g. SH).
Seems to make more sense to go for an a/c that is more similar to the Tejas since the IAF already got the “heavy” fighter covered with the SU-30 whereas Tejas first needs to finalize development and then needs to grow considerably to be able to match the Gripen NG, and that process will take quite some time (if it happens at all).
LokeI suggest several of you should read up on DACT — what it is and what it’s not.
Anyway, the latest “news” from India is still an unconfirmed rumor.
I still think the NG would be the best choice. Let’s face it, what is really needed in the future is 5. gen VLO fighter. At this stage, one should consider 4.5 gen fighters as a stop-gap (short-term) and the “Lo” in a kind of “Hi-Lo” mix with 5. gen fighter in the medium-long term.
Economy and “bang-for-the-buck” should also play a role. If I were Indian I would prefer 200 Gripen NG to 120 Rafale or Typhoon… Quantity is a quality of it’s own. And the money you can save on lower maintainance you should spend on accelerating the 5. gen efforts.
Keep in mind that any of the above-mentioned fighters will be able to hold their own in a2a with any of the fighters China or Pakistan got. The main threat will be from modern SAMs; therefore attrition rates for any 4.5 gen fighter will be high, which means that large number of a/c ultimately will be needed. The only long-term “solution” to the SAM threat is a combination of stand-off weapons, ecm, AND VLO.
The NG will be an excellent complement to the SU-30. The SH, Typhoon and Rafale will offer considerable overlap with the SU-30, both in terms of cost and capability.
LokeEven the Norwegian evaluation mentioned one of the reasons they rejected the Gripen NG was because of the risk associated with the radar, given this was Sweden’s first all up FCR (not prototypes) and some of the claims SAAB were making were optimistic and not verified.
Do you have a source for that?
What I have read was that the F-35 radar was, according to the Norwegian evaluation committee, considered superior to the Gripen NG radar. Which is not at all surprising given that the F-35 radar has a larger number of TR modules, a larger diameter, and is also the latest generation of US American AESA radar technology.
I am sure the F-35 radar will be superior also to the Rafale AESA. This does not say anything about how the Gripen NG and the Rafale AESAs will compare.
LokeNice reflection where. What if the French have used frequency bandwidth selective radomes for the Rafale. Given their long history of RF expertise, EF, Rafale and SH may all have this..
I am sure they do — even the current Gripen C/D has this.
LokeAnd perhaps the Gripen NG has no radar issues…
LokeObligatory : its 1000 modules for the rafale and the typhoon is above 1400 I think.
I think the number of T/R modules for the Typhoon is not yet known — it has the potential for a huge AESA however — the price will also go up.
Therefore it may end up with less T/R modules than it can actually fit.
However even with “just” 1200-1300 modules it would still have 20-30% more than Rafale and Gripen.
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