It seems consistent when you compare it with the single engine gripen. 10kW average for the rafale against 10kW peak for the gripen doesn’t seem shoking to me. Two engines will allow more electricity production.
The current radar of Gripen has a peak power of 10kW — what is the peak power of the current Rafale radar? Probably not 20kW — so I am not sure if I get your point here? :confused:
The power supply of the NG will be boosted considerably, in part due to the 20% stronger F414 engine.
>>RBE2 AESA average power with normal use if I remember well is 10kW. The peak power is certainly much higher.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=86497&page=3
Any AESA experts that could chime in on this? I have seen the 10 W pr. module many different places, including here:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/systems/an-apg-aesa.htm
High-power radar applications, such as fighters and JSTARS RTIP, use “filled” apertures, which at X-band is generally about 3000 modules per square meter of antenna. Fighter radars are usually in the 1000 to 2000 modules size range. Modules that are readily available have peak powers of about 10 W with average power of about 2 W; hence, for a square meter of filled X-band aperture the peak power is typically 30 kW and the average power about 6 kW.
According to this the average power is around 2W — is the RBE2 a factor of 5 above that? Then how come the increase in range is “only” 30-50% ? A 30-50% increase in range when switching to AESA seems to be quite common, in particular if the baseline is rather weak, like the current Rafale radar…
Also the claimed 5X increase in power seem to not fit with the claim that the RBE2 is on par with the APG-79 technology.
Furthermore; I thought that both the Saab/Selex and the Thales AESA used modules from UMS, i.e. basically the same modules?
I don’t know the detail of gripen AESA issues but it could be linked to a smaller electricity supply for instance. Just an idea.
Hmm, I wonder about that.
According to Saab, the current radar has a peak power of > 10 kW:
AFAIK the peak power of an AESA radar is typically 10 W pr. module; so for 1000 modules you would expect peak power of 10 kW. This means that today’s Gripen should be able to deal with a “typical” 1000-module AESA already.
I do not know what the peak power of the modules for the NG AESA will be. It may well be above 10 W, however one should take into account that the NG will have beefed up power supplies but will also use more modern electronic components that spend less power than today’s. Therefore I doubt that the power supply is a problem.
What is the peak power of the RBE2 modules?
Where was the Gripen NG radar questioned?
http://www.timesnow.tv/New-fighters-for-Indian-Air-Force/videoshow/4351234.cms
Play the video; at 1:00 this subtitle is displayed:
Gripen – Sweden
Lost out due to inferior Radar system
I find that very strange, to say the least. These journalists are probably not defence journos, one should keep that in mind. Also, as said already, other leaks from MRCA have in the past proven to be not very reliable.
It may not be perfect however it will be the only Western 5. gen VLO fighter available… I think that’s why there is so much interest in it.
Unless the price becomes prohibitive (and progress recently looks quite good) then my guess is that both Holland and Canada will buy the F-35.
True that we should wait further confirmations but there is a striking similarity with the Brazilian tender. Gripen’s NG radar performance was again called into question. After Pepe Rezende and another Brazilian press report its seems that they have targeted the same issue in India. Which bring some consistence to this leak.
It is still not clear to me what the problem with the Gripen NG radar would be — in particular since these leaks did not mention similar problems with the Typhoon AESA which seems to be further away from finalization than the Gripen AESA. AFAIK Selex is heavily involved in both projects.
The Gripen and Rafale AESA will have the same size (1000 T/R modules) however the Gripen NG radar will get a larger scan volume, and most likely also larger range due to the swashplate construct.
The Gripen AESA is a few months behind the development curve compared to Rafale however the hardware seems more modern. Also, India will not introduce the new a/c this year (nor next year) — only the status of the AESA at the time of introduction should be of interest.
Loke pointed out that some firms may depend on it for their survival. This is not true.
Well I was merely qouting what Vishnu Som wrote at BR (and Livefist) — my main point was actually that he was indicating that he believed this leak was incomplete if not inaccurate.
Let’s wait for more information before drawing conclusions.
There have been “leaks” from India in the past, and they have not always been reliable.
Let’s wait and see if this will be confirmed.
From bharat-rakshak
Hi … Can I just say that no media report on the MRCA deal can be accurate without access to contents of Top Secret files … which, more often than not, tends to be difficult to do … particularly in the case of a high stakes multinational battle which will secure (hopefully) not just India’s national security but also the future of some of the competing firms.
[…]
Finally … can I also say … without having seen the files myself … that the report on Times Now was INCOMPLETE if not inaccurate. In other words, some of the firms who may have felt that they had been hacked from the competition can breathe easy, for now.
Best
Vishnu Som
Associate Editor and Senior Anchor
NDTV
I am a bit confused because the line just above what I cut and pasted said:
Combat Radius 1,000 nm (1,850 km) w/2 1,700-liter drop tanks
If they are going for a CATOBAR solution, then perhaps the F-35C would be more attractive than the SH, also given the large UK involvement with the F-35 program.
I believe the F-35C will be cheaper to purchase than the F-35B (but more expensive than the SH). I would guess that the operating costs would also be between the two?
How about this: Lease a small number of SH from the US until the price of the F-35C has dropped, and (hopefully) the economy has picked up.
The Mirage 2000 is my favorite. A fantastic plane, that (IMHO) could potentially have solds as well as the F-16 had it been American not French…
(although I may be wrong).
I assume the max range of 3335 km is ferry range?
From FAS:
TYPICAL LOADS
2 AM.39 Exocet, 1 1300 L drop Tank (855 nm)
1 1300 L drop tank, 2 ARMAT, 2 R.550 Magic (885 nm)
1 1300 L drop tank, 2R.500 Magic, 2 R.530D (885 nm)
4 Belouga, 2 1700 L drop tank, 2 R.550 Magic (1094 nm)
18 EU2 250 kg bombs (756 nm)
What are those numbers in parantheses? Combat radius I presume?
AFAIK there will be a big difference in price between the F-22 and F-35.
The F-35A should not be much more expensive than a 4.5 gen fighter once production picks up, at least that’s what the Norwegian government is telling us (I think a fly-away of less than 60 million USD for the A version has been mentioned).
I think a SH goes for 55 million USD fly-away these days?
Will Sweden offer to buy Embraer planes if Brasil chooses NG?
Sweden has also made a similar pledge, linked to its offer of the Gripen NG.
David A. Fulghum at Aviationweek seems to believe that the F-35 will have some limited SC:
An attraction of the fifth-generation F-35, with its stealth and supercruise, is that each of them will be able to replace more than one fourth-generation aircraft.
And it was not an error, see the comments section:
Yes, slow supercruise, but supercruise nonetheless