Wasn’t the IAF report meant to be out by the end of july?
As for the M-MRCA selection process, the Air Chief apparently gave no indication as to how each of the six aircraft in the fray performed during the trials. He only observed that the IAF had completed its assignment, and submitted the report to the Ministry of Defence July-end, and on time as promised.
The Russian Mig 35 (initially designated Mig 29M2), Europe’s Eurofighter Typhoon, Swedish Gripen, French Rafale, and the US Boeing F/A 18 E/F Super Hornet and Lockheed Martin’s F 16IN Super Viper are in the fray. The RfP was for 126 aircraft with an option for 63 more.
Thanks for the link — I am embarrassed I was not more aware of the Kargil conflict 😮
Raytheon has no stake in the APG81. Thats Northrop Grumman territory.
OK, so you are implying that Raytheon has a lead on the US competitors when it comes to GaN?
I don’t know if Northrop Grumman is developing their own T/R modules or if they buy from another company?
Does India really envisage the possibility of war with either Pakistan or China (or both!?)
I thought “conventional wisdom” suggested that when two rational opponents both get nukes the risk of war between the two drops to virtually zero. This assumes of course that both opponents are rational, and that both opponents are capable of “striking back”.
I would think this is the case for India?
Or am I wrong?
As reported in other threads Raytheon seems to be pretty close with the GaN systems. However I believe that the F-35 will get the GaAs? Or am I wrong?
And Raytheon sees that the new compound’s time has come–Smolko said gallium nitride is ready now for system insertion. And as such, it is now producing large amounts of the material in its semiconductor foundry in Tewskbury.
The gripen NG never won. The SH won the first edition of the evaluation with 1995 based criteria, then the rafale whith the new criteria weight more in line with Brazil strategy. In fact the gripen NG was never in a position to win. The SH is rafale real challenger here.
The ToT was supposed to give the gripen NG an edge as well as it won on the ToT in the eval. Even against the rafale.
page 32 of this thread from pepe :
From your own posting above:
The first report that reached the High Command of the Air Force brought the Swedish Gripen NG as the best option.
So, in the first version Gripen NG won.
In the second version SH won.
In the third Rafale won.
I don’t know which criteria are “wrong” here, I am not even a Brazilian…!
I just commented that it seems there were three versions of the documents, with three different “winners”, and in the the last one Rafale was declared the “winner”.
It is also interesting to note that the main focus here is on: ToT (a slight edge to NG), and “development risk” (a big edge to both SH and Rafale over NG).
Not much about maximum payload and range… I find that interesting. If NG had been fully developed it seems to me it may had been the winner not Rafale… edit: Or perhaps the criteria would have changed in a different direction then…? Politics decide…
What’s new here?
In the first evaluation Gripen NG won.
Then they changed the criteria, and SH won.
Then they changed the criteria one more time, and Rafale won.
Rafale won the evaluation because:
1. They increased the weight of ToT (which made SH lose many points)
2. They reduced the weight of the costs (which made SH lose some points and NG lose many points)
3. They increased the weight of the “risk” (which made NG lose some more points)
The funny thing is that this has taken so long — Lula announced already in September last year that Rafale would win, and Jobim also announced many times that Rafale was “the best option”.
Anyway, this is just another article; Unless there is an official statement from Lula this soap opera has not ended…
IF there is an announcement from Lula in the coming days, I wonder what Saab will do with all the Brazilian engineers working on the Gripen NG in Sweden right now?
The Taurus big range means it will not be available for export to India under MTCR. This leaves the Gripen with bit of a handicap wrt to Stand off capability, with both the other Euro Canards have with range limited Storm Shadows (Black Shaheen types).
I thought that the MTCR was there to make sure critical technology is not exported to countries that does not already have it; does this mean that India does not have medium range cruise missile technology?
As for the range of Taurus; I may be wrong but I would think that it should be not too difficult to limit the range if that’s a requirement. Also there is the RBS-15 which exist also in land-attack version.
If the bigger twin engine aircrafts did not offer the extra gain of range and carrying capability there would simply be no point going bigger and coping with the extra cost.
Of course there is an advantage, and in some cases it’s worth the extra cost.
How much of an advantage? Well I think if you look at it historically you can compare the sales of F-16 to F-15; that will give you an indication… Some countries need the F-15, often in addition to the F-16, whereas most are happy with the F-16 only.
India has ordered some 250 SU-30 — do they need more “heavy” fighters than that?
The SU30 is arguably an exellent platform for that role due to its size and range but I don’t think that it would be as survivable than most MMRCA contenders due its very big RCS.
I think they have done a lot to reduce the SU-30 MKI RCS, I believe Teer had some excellent postings on that some time ago.
None of the MMRCA will have the low RCS of the PAK FA; so the “RCS advantage” will in any case be present only until the PAK FA arrives, a few years after the MMRCA.
Well if India is looking for an a/c to mainly perform deep strike then of course the larger twin-engine fighters will have an advantage.
However if they are looking for a cheap a/c to do most things well, I think they will end up with Gripen or F-16 — or potentially the SH since it seems to be surprisingly cheap.
I will try to find the link to that study later. Note it was focusing on fuel consumption, which was lower with the F-16. And also note that although endurance was better with the 4 F-16, the 2 F-15 still had an edge in range.
How many % of the IAF missions will be deep strike missions? 5%? 10%? 15%? I don’t know, but I suspect that the ca. 250 SU-30 can handle the deep strike missions that the IAF foresee, although I may be wrong of course.
Yes but as stated before, instead of trying to put too much on a small a/c one can instead distribute on more a/c (or use tankers for the really long missions).
A study was done once comparing two F-15 to four F-16; the 4 F-16 were carrying exactly the same weapons load as the F-15. However the 4 F-16 spent in total less fuel than the two F-15… And also had longer endurance!
The F-15 did have longer range, but the difference was perhaps smaller than what you would expect.
For most missions a light a/c will perform as well as a larger a/c. For some missions the larger a/c will have an advantage however for many of those missions one has the option of using more light-weight a/c instead, and let each a/c carry less payload.
India of course also has the option of using SU-30, and in the not-to-distant future the T-50.
NG and Rafale has some things in common; The NG will be a ligh-weight fighter “punching above it’s weight” into the Medium weight class; Rafale is a medium-weight fighter that is “punching above it’s weight” into the Heavy weight class…
It will be interesting to see what India goes for…
Arthuro,
I agree; I did not mean to imply that two engines will give shorter range, simply reminding people that a larger two-engine fighter needs to carry significantly more fuel than a smaller single-engine fighter.
A small single-engine fighter is more fuel-efficient than a larger twin engine fighter.
Rafale will be able to carry more and longer than e.g. the Gripen NG. However the NG can often perform the mission carrying less fuel, which means that the total payload will be smaller; less drop tanks means less drag, which further reduces the fuel consumption.
Of course there are limits, however even the Rafale has limits; beyond those both NG and Rafale need tankers…
Well with two engines you do need a lot of fuel … :p
Brazilian participation in the Program Gripen NG completes one year
Google translated:
Led Akaer, companies Friuli, Winnstal, Minoan Imbra Aerospace and sent to Sweden a team of 20 engineers and technicians from Brazil in late July 2009 to begin working on the design of the Saab Gripen NG.
“Effective cooperation with Saab began on August 31 seeking the full engagement of companies in the project, which includes the area of major technologies of the aircraft and access to all sensitive areas in the company’s factory in Linköping, Sweden “informed at the time the chief executive of Akaer, César Augusto da Silva.
Technology transfer in the area of structures made of composite material, according to the director of Akaer, enable Brazilian companies to be world class suppliers of any customer’s Gripen NG.
“We are not simply involved in manufacturing parts, which has no value and engineering activity. The issue is not only done, but do know and that we begin to learn by working together,” added Silva.