I think it’s rather unlikely for the Rafale to be eliminated if its performance in the UAE is any indication of its capabilities. Remember the Rafale beat out even the F-15K in the Korean technical evaluation, was short listed in the Brazilian competition, and leads in the Brazilian technical evaluation,
According to some sources Gripen was ranked numero uno also on the technical evaluation in Brazil…. and Rafale was ranked last, after SH.
This looks like a very transparent lobbying ploy by EMBRAER. This letter was from the CIESP branch in Sao Jose dos Campos. Guess who’s the #1 employer there? EMBRAER…
Well, it’s clear: The aviation industry (lead by Embraer, of course) prefer Gripen NG.
Why are they lobbying for Gripen? Because that gives them the best deal. It’s as simple as that.
India to speed up MMRCA process
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSGE61H07420100219?type=marketsNews
NEW DELHI, Feb 19 (Reuters) – India will narrow down the number of bidders by mid-2010 for its $11 billion fighter jet tender, a minister said, in a closely watched deal where diplomacy and strategic interests will play a big role.
Lockheed Martin’s F-16 is competing with Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet, France’s Dassault Rafale, Russia’s MiG-35, Sweden’s Saab (SAABb.ST) JAS-39 Gripen and the Eurofighter Typhoon, produced by a consortium of European companies.
The acquisition of 126 air and ground attack fighters will elevate India’s air force to a super-power status, with deployments planned near the western and northeast borders to tackle any threats from Pakistan or China, officials say.
India fears China could be trying to strategically encircle it as they jostle for resources and global influence, while Pakistan has the U.S. F-16 fighters in its fleet, forcing New Delhi to buy planes that can shoot at targets 30 miles away.
“The trials should conclude by the middle of this year,” Pallam Raju, India’s junior defence minister, told Reuters on the sidelines of an arms fair in New Delhi this week.
“Once the trials are concluded, then we will be looking into the financial bids. We are speeding up things.”
While Lockheed’s F-16 has completed trials which began last August, the other five, including the MiG-35 from Russia, India’s traditional supplier of weapons, and Sweden’s Gripen, are in the midst of field trials. The phased trials will end by April.
Most air-to-air combat kills in the last 20 years or so were in BVR, you know, with Sparrows and AMRAAMS, etc. Wouldn’t it more appropriate for the competitors to pretend to shoot such missiles at each other in such mock combat??
I thought most a2a kills were still in WVR range (within 5nm) ?
They just took one powerpoint presentation and compared it to another one.
I think this is key here — F-35 was mainly a long list of specs at that time, and any decision had to be made on the basis of that.
Only time will tell if Australia (and Norway, for that matter) made the right decision. Will F-35 become the new F-16? Or something else? Personally I think it’s too early to tell. However it does seem to me that: If LM can deliver on spec and without too much additional delays then it will probably be worth it, although I am no expert and my opionion is based on reading what other people say about this.
Some people seem to think that even if it meets spec and is not much more delayed it will still fail; I am not so sure about that; it will never perform as F-22 or Typhoon (or Rafale?) in dogfights but then again, perhaps it does not have to?
The smart thing of course, is to do like India. buy a 50/50 mix of F-18 and PAKFA.
When did India decide to buy F-18?
It really makes no sense whatsoever to contemplate a third type ! unless they’re planning a back-up option in case the N-LCA is not successful due to weight issues. in which case it would be better to go with a proven type like the Rafale M or Super Hornet or the F-35B if offered. BTW, in this N-LCA case, the US is showing its true colours- Lockheed Martin after winning the bid to consult with ADA on possible ways to reduce the landing gear weight, has not yet begun as its not been able to get the required licences.
I think you’re right in assuming that this is a backup strategy.
Would the Rafale or SH be able to fly off the smallish Indian carriers?
Just found this:
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/eurofighter%5Cs-mission-in-india-makingshortlist/386053/
And which 2 fighters were those performing sub par?
That is a very good question, perhaps even worth it’s own thread? :rolleyes:
since they are talking about “performing sub par” could that indicate that they are talking about the a/c they have actually tested so far?
Perhaps I am being terribly biased, but I wonder if the Mig-35 could be one of the two?
Anyway, unless something goes terribly wrong during testing, or the price is too high, it seems that the Typhoon could become a front runner.
Saab presents naval Gripen to Navy
http://www.stratpost.com/gripen-presents-naval-variant-to-navy
Gripen has made presentations of its Sea Gripen fighter aircraft to the Indian Navy last week.
Tony Ogilvy, Vice President, International Marketing for Gripen informed StratPost that his company had made presentations to the navy last week and said the response was ‘very good’.
Ogilvy, who is also a former Royal Navy Buccaneer and Sea Harrier pilot, said the ‘inherent design characteristics’ of the Gripen aircraft make it ‘very similar to a deck based aircraft’.
He said that in the two-hour presentation, which took place last Friday, Sea Gripen’s salt water protection characteristics and maritime operational engine and its ability to operate off both CATOBAR and STOBAR carriers were some of the features highlighted.
According to Ogilvy, the Sea Gripen is being especially pitched to nations which are looking for compact carriers and are not necessarily interested in global force projection capabilities. The aircraft is said to have a very small footprint and is very easy to operate off smaller carriers.
So would the Sea Gripen be good for the Indian 40,000 ton Vikrant class carrier under construction? “Perfect,” said Ogilvy.
Does anyone know why it’s so delayed? Is it the software, the airframe, or what?
Loke, please don’t correct gammar if you are going to misspell. 😉
:confused:
SPECTRA does play a role in any engagement. You’re infrared seekers are slaved to fire control, which in many situations uses a radar lock to align the seeker to a target. There are few countries with the technical know-how to silently intercept without some kind of emmissions. SPECTRA gives the pilot awareness 90% of the time by that fact alone. Not all emmissions are from transmitters. The mere act of cutting air with your airframe gives off emmissions detectable out to about 10km.
Are those emissions IR?
AFAIK WVR is normally considered to be less than 5 nm (10 km).
I am confused — what role does spectra play in a dogfight, which I thought would be the “end-stage” of a WVR?
And in any case I stand by what I have said before: Unless everything is known, it’s very hard to draw any conclusions from such trainings…
Still: It could be that in a dogfight the Rafale would be able to closely match the F-22. Is that really surprising? The Rafale seems a superb dogfighter to me. I thought modern fighters were mainly limited by the pilots anyway — There are limits to how many Gs one can pull without blacking out…
Now it’s official — Gripen NG will get the Selex Skyward-G IRST:
and what about the engine replacement question? “easily” doesn’t explain the time.
I don’t know if it would be possible to do without delaying the introduction of the Gripen NG. Maybe, maybe not. It would increase the cost though.
The other question one may ask, is it really a problem? Consider, even if Brazil gets a US embargo, what does it mean? No new F414s. However they can still use the ones they’ve got. And they will get all the tools and systems to do maintainance and some repairs. Look at Iran, they are still flying some old US a/c…
The engine is IMHO actually less of an issue. It could be more of an issue if Brazil got an embargo on the avionics. However AFAIK the Gripen NG avionics will be Swedish/British.
As long as there are no embargoes there are no problems and Brazil is fine with F414. If in the future an embargo materialize Brazil will be fine in the short-term. If the embargo will be longer-term they could then switch to the EJ200. This would shift the cost of switching into the future, and it may even never happen.
Do you think it is possible to replace with EJ200 EPE in time for Brazil and India competitions? Also is it possible to add Conformal Fuel Tanks to increase the range of Gripen ?(Although it carries external drop tanks too, but rafale came with CFT variant too)
The range of Gripen NG is excellent, it has increased internal fuel with 40% compared to current Gripen. No need for CFT.
Gripen NG can do a 1300 km radius a2a mission with 6 a2a missiles and 30 minutes on-station using only one drop tank — if you want to go even further you can add another drop tank.