LokeTo demonstrate to clients and potential such that the system is safe, Saab has chosen to get it approved in accordance with the high demands placed on civilian aircraft.
– We qualify fully to a civilian level. Civilian aircraft have a higher security. There are more people in the aircraft and the lack of ejection seats. Our avionics system is a very strong selling point for us and then want to prove the robustness of the system, says Sebastian Carlsson.
So the decision should not be interpreted to mean that there is a problem?
– No the opposite. We would have been able to fly, but we choose not to do it because it is not optimal for the application.
Google translated from: http://www.corren.se/nyheter/linkoping/darfor-skjuts-premiarflygningen-av-nya-gripen-upp-om4394112.aspx
Are other fighter a/c having “civilian” certification?
LokeI wonder how the strongly increased pressure from soon-to-be president Trump for all NATO members to spend at least 2% of GDP will affect things in Canada? Last I checked Canada was far away from 2%.
Me thinks they can “afford” a mix of SH and F-35 in the future, even if it is not very cost-effective.
LokeWith the F-35 becoming operational and cheaper by the year there is really no point in a buyer paying Rafale prices for Rafale level capability.
Wrong; India just did….
When will fanboys realize that there is much more to purchasing a fighter than just the technical specs?
LokeUpdated 17.30), the new Saab JAS 39 Gripen E -monitoimihävittäjän software are fully qualified backup before the next flight. Air Gripen E rises according to the latest information, only during the second quarter of 2017. launched in May 2016 a new Gripen fighter is involved in Finland HX-fighter project.
According to Saab’s Gripen E program is progressing according to plan. The Swedish manufacturer says its decision to carry out a full software competence assurance even before the first flight of the machine. The previous plan was to make backups in accordance with the parts of the defense industry in today’s practice.
As a result of this strategic decision, the next flight will be conducted in 2017. The first flight is carried out, when it is most beneficial for the whole program.
The manufacturer, there is already involved, when the first flight phase to be made. So far, the exact date is not disclosed. Even the May roll out ceremony at the first flight were told to take place during the current year.
“We optimize the development of the new plan, and we will deliver the machine to the customer on schedule accordingly.”, Says Saab’s Gripen program in the Nordic and Baltic Sales Director Magnus Skogberg
“We could take the first flight of the original plan for the year 2016 but we wanted to challenge old practices and strengthen a whole for the new machine as well as to ensure delivery on time”.
“The first of the new Gripen E aircraft first flight is planned for the second quarter of 2017. As a first air rises to the current plans, the first graduate of 39-8 -koelentokone,” continues Skogberg.
“We are pleased with the progress of the Gripen program, E, and the first machine is delivered as planned in 2019”.
Google translated from: http://lentoposti.fi/uutiset/gripen_e_havittajan_ohjelmistovarmistukset_siirtavat_ensilennon_vuodelle_2017
LokeTyphoons development failures can be placed squarely at most of the partner nations not pulling their weight when it comes to funding. When it finally receives AESA / Meteor, it will be head and shoulders above Rafale as an A2A platform.
By the time it receives AESA and Meteor Rafale has evolved much further, and none of us really knows which would be strongest in A2A.
Again, have a look at the Swiss leaks — apart from a few French fanboys, most aviation fanboys (and in particular the Typhoon fanboys) were very very surprised by that outcome, in particular the weakness of Typhoon but also the many strengths and the maturity of the Rafale at the time of the eval.
Now of course the story is “the Swiss eval is old and things have changed” well yes some things have changed, some things have not changed, and this holds for both Rafale and Typhoon. The Swiss leaks should serve as a reminder of the cluelessness of most people posting on forums like this……
LokeBeacause it is “””vastly more capable””” ?
True, but if they really want something “vastly more capable” they could go for the F-35, and by the time the Swiss are going to buy the F-35 is most likely cheaper than the Rafale.
It all comes down to requirements and cost; their budget is extremely tight and at the same time they need a minimum number of a/c.
If they are willing to consider the F-35, then it will be between Gripen E and the F-35 with little room for the capable (but still less capable than F-35) Rafale.
On the other hand if they do not want to include F-35 then most likely it will be a re-run between Rafale and Gripen E. Rafale won that technical eval but lost on other important parameters including cost, and therefore lost the whole competition. Perhaps sales of Gripen E to Brazil and India will lower the Gripen cost further? On the other hand Rafale sales to India and those ME countries I keep forgetting the names of, may lower Rafale costs somewhat as well.
On verra.
Loke“We have R $ 1.5 billion secured for the project to continue to follow your schedule, it’s going very well. The project from the point of view of financing was very well formulated, then I see no major risks, in spite of our fiscal constraints “, said. “It would make sense not stop to think a project like this,” the minister after the inauguration of the Center for Projects and Development Gripen (Gripen Design Development Network – GDDN) in Embraer Industrial Complex in Gavião Peixoto (SP).
The project of US $ 5.4 billion involves the development and production of 36 Gripen fighters from the Swedish in partnership with Embraer, 23 of which are assembled in Brazil, to be delivered between 2019 and 2024. Jungmann admitted that the PEC still in progress in Congress, but is expected to be approved in December, “creates a hardtop” to the budgets of folders, but assured: “I do not lose sleep about it.”
Google translated from: http://www.istoedinheiro.com.br/noticias/negocios/20161122/jungmann-gripen-tem-garantido-bilhao-orcamento-2017/434841
LokeNope, they’re idiots
Well, they are politicians; what did you expect?
LokeThere are two aspects here to which we should give more attention.
First, the budget for the upgrade is significant at 0.5 b$ for 34 planes. I don’t know where I read it but many items would be directly piped down the SH line such as the mission computer and radar.
This makes the upgraded Hornet a hard competitor to beat in the next competition. Hard enough that a buy of Rafale or Typhoon would be hard to justify to the public (albeit the Typhoon dyn perfs might help).Hence the second aspect:
By capping the next competition at a high level, won’t it make easier for a less performing/lower cost fighter to sneak in the first place? That will sound more in line with a F5 replacement (thus that will be extended – good news and bad news with light fighter pilots having then a voice in this competition).Respectively, a fighter bringing something that the upgraded Hornet can’t provide, would have a chance if invited to the competition (E.g Stealth).
So, at the end, Sintra, I think you might have hit something. Let’s call it the Gripchtein competition 😉
Best,
Switzerland may actually be one of those countries that will not go for the F-35….
LokeTyphoon has not been a big success — so much money spent and the result is that even today in 2016 the Typhoon is still “not yet there” in terms of performance and capabilities.
In some ways, a decent amount of a/c have been produced, which is to be expected when 4 of the 5 largest cuntries in Europe participates. However considering the amount of not just double-work but quadrupple-work, it has been too expensive, and this has forced them to cut on capabilities, which has made the whole stuff not very attractive.
Another big problem is that it seems horribly expensive to operate; this was one of the complaints the Swiss had about the Typhoon.
It is a political monster and France probably made the right choice staying out of it.
Hopefully lessons have been learned and hopefully Europe will be able to do better in the future.
LokeSweden’s Saab and Embraer Defense & Security opened the Gripen Design Development Network (GDDN) at the Brazilian aviation unit in Gavião Peixoto (SP) on Tuesday, the 22nd. The GDDN will develop technology for the Gripen NG fighter in Brazil for Saab and Embraer, along with Brazilian companies and institutions partners: AEL Sistemas, Atech, Akaer and the Brazilian Air Force (FAB), through its research department. In addition to the GDDN, Embraer’s industrial complex in the interior of São Paulo for defense and security products will be the seat of production of the airplane and also of tests and about a thousand flight tests of the model mounted here. Built in 14 months, the GDDN now has 25 Brazilian engineers and 10 Swedish engineers and the number of employees will reach 150 in 2017, according to the director general of the program, Mikael Franzén. “More than 120 Brazilian engineers went to Saab, more than 25,000 hours of training have already been done and a total of 350 engineers, technicians and pilots will go to Sweden,” he said. Between 2019 and 2024, 36 Gripen NG-28 fighters with one seat and 8 with two seats – will be delivered to the FAB. The technology transfer program is divided into 60 key projects, lasting up to 24 months. Embraer will play a leading role in the execution of the program and will carry out a large part of the production and delivery of the Gripen NG versions. The company will be responsible for a considerable amount of work in systems development, integration, flight testing, final assembly and aircraft deliveries.
Google translated from: http://www.diariodaregiao.com.br/economia/saab-e-embraer-inauguram-o-centro-de-projetos-e-desenvolvimento-do-gripen-1.627781
This is what I call real ToT…
LokeThey are talking about a F-18 lease, not a buy of a small amount.
If they were smart (lol), they should try and lease the F-35. At least then there is an active market for it if & when something else wins the comp.
Where does it say lease?
Anyway, interesting development. I also suspect they may end up with a mix of SH and F-35. 40-20 split?
LokeSwiss Defence Minister Guy Parmelin has announced a fighter jet strategy that involves refurbishing current planes for half a billion francs and laying the groundwork for purchasing new ones by 2025.*
The scope of the evaluation of new planes remains to be determined, with the possibility of limiting it to three jets (Gripen, Eurofighter and Rafale models) or just one of those three.
In any case, Parmelin foresees choosing the new planes by 2020 and obtaining funding for the purchase by 2022. The jets should become operational between 2025 and 2030 under the defence minister’s plan.
Read more: http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/new-planes_defence-minister-lays-out-fighter-jet-plan/42609992
Will Gripen E win once more, or will Rafale take it away?
LokeDA are not a “show off” company and their efforts will stay discrete. But i can insure you that they are fully commited to finnish competition.
Still, it will be almost impossible to sell Rafale in Finland.
The cost of Rafale will be comparable to F-35, but F-35 will be much more capable; then there is also the political benefit of choosing a US brand.
Rafale lost to Gripen E both in Switzerland and Brazil, partly due to much higher cost. If the F-35 is too expensive for Finland, then so will Rafale be too expensive. They are roughly in the same price range — or perhaps F-35 will even be cheaper than the Rafale.
LokeI’m pretty certain that twice the number of countries operate, or will operate, the Typhoon, and twice the number of Typhoons have been produced, compared to the Rafale?
I was talking about the export market only.
And yes, Rafale has also not been a big export success.
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