Submarines are all very useful against terrorists.
The Australian attitude seems to be one of “the Yellow Hordes are flooding through the gates.” Indeed Australia was united on the premises of a fear of Asia.
Good news for USAF.
What roles is the F-35 going to be used for initially?
UGM-109s launched from a submarine are just as effective as air or ship launched variants. But while a large number of nations have the ability to conduct effective anti ship operations, only a comparatively small number are able to conduct anti-submarine operations over a large area. So submarines are likely to be a more survivable and stealthy attack platform.
The destroyers are useful for other tasks as well – patrolling, ommand and control operations, NGFS and maintain a visual presence.
A submarine is a purely offensive weapon (though can be used for SIGINT/ELINT but you don’t need 12).
And what does Australia aim to use such a large submarine force for anyway? Are they planning to wage unrestricted submarine warfare on the Asia? (Wouldn’t surprise me given the level of Asiaphobia in Oz – even when I was studying political science at Uni in 2003-04 a lot of Australian students were convinced the Asians were out to get us and openly voiced this sort of opinion in front of Asian students).
At launch the Canberras will be fitted with the same combat system as the ANZACs, and will have the same 3D radar as the original ANZAC fit. Upgrading them to the same defensive capability as the updated ANZACs shouldn’t be difficult or expensive. As for F-35Bs, time will tell; just look at how quickly the C-17s, M1A1s and FA-18Fs were acquired when government saw the need. After all, a fixed wing aviation capable ship was selected, and the only slightly smaller, rotary-wing only alternative was rejected.
Building up fixed wing carrier aviation takes a lot longer than replacing a Leopard with an M1 or an F-111 with an F/A-18F.
The original defensive capability of ANZACS was deemed unacceptable and apparently one of the roles of the Hobart class is escorting the LHD. So out of 3 destroyers, at least 1 is taken up with escort duty.
I think F-16 is a better buy for Poland than Eurofighter:
1. Already operate 48 F-16C/D so fleet commonality.
2. Cheaper to operate.
3. Simplify logistics. Will have fleet of 96 aircraft based on two types (F-16/ MiG-29) rather than fleet of 96 aircraft based on 3.
4. Single squadron of Eurofighters (16-18 a/c) does not result in operational economies of scale, when compared to 4 squadrons (64 a/c) of F-16s.
In an ideal world, I’d have replaced the MiG-29 with F-16 as well.
Article speculating future of Dassault as a manufacturer of military equipment and in particular failure of Rafale to achieve meaningful orders:
It doesn’t mention another issue Dassault is facing with regards to it’s involvement in fighter sector – dwindling Mirage III/V/F1/2000 fleets which means less orders for overhauls and upgrades.
My bet is on ex-USAF F-16C/Ds.
Agreed on Taiwan.
However 11 ships to protect such a massive chunk of coastline and 2 oceans seems inadequate even if we ignore Southern Ocean (as defined by Australia).
I also think Canberra class LHD’s are a waste of cash – no defensive systems (bar 4 x 25mm guns) and more critically no intention to operate F-35B. These seem to be purely for support of humanitarian and peace keeping operations.
That gives us a few more frigates as well.
Much better idea than previous plan of replacing them with UAVs useful for terrorising own populace and not much else.
Totally agree.
Replacing Su-22 with UAV seemed like a backward step.
I guess they figure after 2014 and end of Afghanistan, UAV’s will be off limited utility.
So when is the next Pitch Black exercise? 🙂 Indonesia AF might bring along an actuall Sq size this time.
I doubt they’ll bring more than 4 – you have jets out for maintenance, air policing and other requirements.
The reason the collins class was having trouble. Was the lack of funds to do routine maintenance. Plain and simple you need to keep them up to date and serviced correctly.
8 new submarines and a fourth AWD would be a better mix of defence and offence.
Replace the armidales with something a lot bigger in the corvette size also.
I think the Armidale replacement should stay at that size – their main job is intercepting illegal migrants.
From memory, there was a proposal to transfer the patrol boats to Customs or create a Coast Guard, but the Navy didn’t want to give them up on grounds they were useful for training junior officers.
I’d like another AWD, but it would need a different radar/combat system since we bought the last SPY1s and they aren’t being made anymore so whatever we buy would be out of step with the rest of the fleet.
As I said before, I’d go for 3 additional destroyers instead of 12 subs. I’d have these destroyers equipped with Tomahawks (basically I’d buy 3 Arleigh Burkes).
3 destroyers are of far greater utility than 12 subs. And Tomahawk cruise missiles are a far greater deterrent than torpedos and Harpoon AShms. In fact Tomahawks also have far more utility than Torpedos/AShms in terms of Coalition operations.
It’s interesting the surface fleet is in decline in terms of hull numbers with 4 Adelaide class FFGs being replaced by 3 Hobart class AWDs. That will leave a fleet of 11 larger ships – 8 ANZAC frigates and 3 Hobart class destroyers.
Taiwan which has a similar size population has 26 major ships (including 4 destroyers). But then they also have 400-ish combat aircraft compared to 95 for Australia.
Look up Anatolian Eagle 2010.
How can Australia justify buying an aircraft without the source codes when those aircraft could be unusable after a few weeks of combat?
I don’t see why the the head honchos in Washington would shut down fighters based in the 51st state. :highly_amused:
I don’t think he’s paid. I think he’s just an F-22 zealot who is in denial that RAAF will never fly the thing.
It really does seem that in the period 1977-1984 that the Eastern Europeans simply couldn’t afford MiG-23 and thus went for MiG-21bis (cheaper to acquire and operate).
The availability of MiG-29 did not play a role here – in fact MiG-29 were only delivered to Warpac countries from 1988.
MiG-29 orders were also quite limited in the same way the MiG-23 orders were:
East Germany – 56 a/c (24 delivered) – 1 regiment
Poland – a mere 12 a/c
Czech Republic – 40 a/c (20 delivered) – 1 regiment
Romania – 18 a/c – 0.5 regiment
Bulgaria – 22 a/c – 0.5 regiment
Hungary – 0
It’s true these were initial orders (though East Germans had placed a second order for 32 a/c that was cancelled).
I suspect had the Cold War continued, the East Europeans probably would’ve brought MiG-29s in the similar numbers to MiG-23s and they probably would be continuing to rely on MiG-21 even in 2013.
The Arabs got good service out of MiG-23 in terms of years of service and in terms of Iraq combat service in 1980-88. But the Arabs had money, Soviet strategic priority and actual combat requrements.