pagen01On one of the Forums (Here or Planetalk) Peter Holloway wrote a nice appraisal of the aircraft.
Here on page 2, http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101327, obviously written by Hairyplane along with some fantastic pictures by Robbo on first page.
pagen01Or Howard Hughes floating about in one of his XF-11s!:D
pagen01I was asked to comment on this thread.
Thank you James, I appreciate the input of someone removed from the particular issue at question but has great interest and depth of knowledge of museums in general.
I realise that this conversation is rapidly departing from the thread title, but I think that it’s not simply a case of dealing with one particular exhibit – its a much larger issue.
I’m glad it has gone into this territory John as it is an interesting discussion.
It does seem from, yours , T/Os, and Bruces posts that things are changing, whether it is a gradual realisation that airframes are better off moved around and restored and displayed in other museums, or a genuine effect of the current financial climate at the moment I’m not sure.
I must state absolutely clearly that I admire all these museums and the hard work that goes on within them, ranging from the Cosford and AAM buildings and displays, to the hangar with some aircraft in such as the FAAM reserve collection. We have got it good in this country from the partly government funded ‘nationals’ to all the private collections which must really operate against all the odds sometimes.
I also appreciate that museums must entertain a wide range of visitors aswel as educate and preserve.
T/Os piece about various national reserve collection aircraft being offered out to smaller private collections sounds great, some of the Cosford aircraft really need to be displayed somewhere rather than hidden in a hangar on the far side of the airfield.
I guess my personal gripe here is that I see the Shackleton as such a relevant and established type to the IWM (both physicaly and policy wise) that it should take a higher priority when being considered as to what should stay or go.
Someone mentioned Mary Alice, and I would think that the Shack was a more important candidate for restoration than her, but I guess others could argue equally for the other way around. I certainly think that it should take prority over the CASA 2.111. JT442 mentions it ahs to go to make room for something else, what else deserves the room over the Shack?
I can’t think of anywhere more relevant for a Shackleton to be displayed, apart from RAFM Cosford (and guessing WR960 might be returning there?), none of its opeating areas are close to major museums, I suppose East Fortune to represent its very lonag association with Kinloss and Lossiemouth.
The IWM must have their reasons for this move and I absolutely appreciate that they appear to be doing the right thing in ensuring a good future for it elsewhere.
All the well considered replies to this thread are much appreciated.:)
pagen01Well good luck with it all today Peter and the gang, everything’s crossed!:)
You’ve probably already done this and reported it to the forum, but have you embraced the conservation side of things (nature trails, stuffed Whiskered Newts!)? People seem to like it and it will keep the right people on side.
pagen01Ebay and Aeromarts/boots to me are two very different things.
I’m probably at the more basic end of the scale as an enthusiast that works on bits of aircraft, with just a cockpit section and a few panels etc, and this is how I see the two different ‘shop fronts’,
Ebay I can buy the right specific parts as and when I need them, ie as I encounter missing parts while actually working on a project.
Best option for buying specific parts at reasonable prices.
Aeroboot, I might be able to afford to go to one a year, and it might have an item that I require that I might have rememberd from when I was working on something. However I might stumble across something among the junk (and let’s face it there is a bit) that I like and wouldn’t have though about purchasing normally.
Best option for browsing and maybe getting a deal on an unexpected item.
Ebay is a double edged sword, personally I have never had it so good for actually finding bits. I can have the damaged part in front of me and compare the replacement part that I want to buy on my computor, or find a missing part, another important spin off is that it has put me in touch with regular sellers on there with whom I can negotiate and deal with on and off the site.
The downside are some of the prices, but then as a buyer it comes down to me to set a figure in my mind of how much I actually want to pay for something and not to exceed that, works for me most of the time and it’s surprising how much stuff comes around again if it is listed too expensively first time around. The bargains are still on there.
pagen01I will miss it if it leaves DUX. Is there anything I can do, as a mere visitor, to keep it there? I fear not.
Possibly, but another advantage of this being a public body and museum is that you can make your feelings known to them, such as by email.
I have emailed the IWM with basic questions (not about my feelings I should add), awaiting reply.
I must admit I was drawn to this particular issue because it involves the Shackleton, a type I feel very keenly about, to others maybe it isn’t that significant a type, but these actions of the IWM could be the start of going down a very slippery slope. What next, the Victor dosen’t quite fit, or the Hastings is seen as not required.
I really want to avoid the path of what will happen to this airframe in private hands (some of the posts above don’t fill me with confidence), and I’m mindful that this involves private submissions and contracts etc.
But the basic action of a national museum washing its hands of a significant type, simply because it dosen’t want to invest in it anymore I fnd quite startling.
I agree with what Chox is saying quite well here, but not sure if it is just a wartime vs recent history thing, ie I can’t see them getting rid of the Vulcan in such a flippent manner.
pagen01Another great shot AK, pretty well confirms the Varsity nacelles questioned about in your previous shot, you can just make out a small semi circular indent in the bottom of the firewalls (exhaust stub clearence?) in both pics, even wondering if they could be the very same items?!
pagen01The items on top look like engine nacelles to me Rad, you can see the exhaust stubs at the front and what appear to me to be twin wheeled undercarriages within, the only types I can think of at present is Varsity, Douglas C-54 etc, or Hermes?
BTW RF525 was a Lincoln, so I’m wondering if AK means ‘Lancaster RF325‘, this was the last Lancaster to leave RAF service and ended up at Coleys’, it is pictured by Mark12 quite a way bit earlier in the thread.
I’m still surprised by at least twelve (that we can actually see and count) Hunters in a yard in ’62, some of these aircraft would only be five to seven years old. I had assumed that most went into reworking by HSA.
pagen01Thread on first flight here, I know there are more detailed threads on it aswel somewhere, http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=88989
pagen01Thanks Jon, PM sentified!
pagen01Nicely put Kev and Bob, both angles that seem to be glaringly overlooked.
pagen01As an aside, Cosford is always packed, year in, year out, both before the Vulcan effect and will be after the Vulcan is eventually grounded.
It was also a gorgeous sunny day – that may have had something to do with the increased attendance as well. Cosford 2007 was rammed as well. I think that was before the Vulcan appeared.
Yep, and as I said 2010 show was absolutely packed with traffic parked back up the motorway and the gates shut at midday, it was a horrible day, and there was no Vulcan.
I honestly think the Vulcans’ time in the air has coincided with airshow rising gate figures.
I do get that it is dramatic to watch, but it’s not on the mass publics mind as much as some like to think it is.
Even where I work within an air trafffic and ops wing, only two people remembered what a Vulcan was, a controller who remembered it from the late 1980s, and an assistant whos father used to paint them!
What I hate about this ‘Vulcan is best’ line is the fact that there are so many other great outfits out there that put on great air displays, you don’t see Team Viper, Sally B, or the Sea Vixen operators constantly trying to blackmail supporters with threats that it won’t fly next season because the buckets weren’t filled quick enough to pay for a service.
pagen01Interesting news Groundhugger and unaware of that if it becomes true. It would be sad to see it leave Manchester, I’m guessing Cosford would be the most likely destination?
Not withstanding XF708 represents the original Coastal Command role and service though.
Good point that Bruce raises, that maybe rationalisation of the various national museums and the aircraft within is perhaps not a bad idea, so long as types are moved within the framework and not pushed out all together.
The Science Museum is certainly one of the national museums, but I suppose outside of this subject.
pagen01Fantastic record of events, I’ve never appreciated until now what a swift and well executed operation it is from opening a container of parts to flying an aircraft.
pagen01Yes, but I take precautions!
To be honest I think I prefer pipes and slippers to Tiger & Stearmans!
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