TomcatViPAn interesting article from the Aviationist:
http://theaviationist.com/2013/08/26/syria-air-war-plan/
Basically the argument is that any intervention in Syria will be exclusively cruise missile and strategic bomber missions.
It does make sense – the tac jets and supporting infrastructure need time to be deployed.
Also no-one wants to take sides too strongly in Syria due to:
1. Rebels include some unsavoury characters.
2. Do not want a repeat of
3. Probably no UN Security Council resolution.
4. No NATO involvement – both Italy and Germany are opposed to any action without a Security Council Resolution and all NATO discussions on matter have been on containment of conflict.5. US does not want to totally destroy credibility of UN and open up the world to open interventionism by other powers.
6. US does not want to be seen to be attempting regime change ala Libya.
Some arguments from the aviationist sounds good. Other less. The real (trivial) question is what are the objectives? That does not looks as easy as it seems (listen Kerry speach carrefully) Then man can start to wrap up a strategy around it.
TomcatViPGreat summary. I hope we will be able to read that printed in French one day.
So NGJ or in-house (with some partnership)?
TomcatViPAgree, wonder if LM will offer F-16 if F-35 is disqualified ?
I think that is the best suited option
C’mon, let’s be serious for one time…
Anyhow the Syrian events would be detrimental for all and obviouly closely watched. Perso I don’t see any coalition pilot who won’t be happy to be seated in a 35 (perhaps unless the Frenchies happy to dog the seagulls and drop an eye under the Syrian girl’s skirt* while skeaming the ground in auto-mode on their way to target)
Regarding the GH as an AEW platform, I don’t think that the reliability issue of drones (and a single engine one) make it viable for Canada vastly inhabited zone (costwise obviouly – I am not contesting the formidable opportunities of such a platform).
*be sure to check your recognition guide before flight
TomcatViPBe fair Scooter setting them up for a BVR fight will favour the F-22, WVR its roughly even (HMS excepted), and air to ground it favours the Typhoon.
In a conflict a Typhoon is the much more rounded opponent and the f-22 is more the one trick gold plated pony.
Typhoon vs the F-35 will be interesting – the high and fast Typhoons will not be easy targets for the F-35 15,000 feet below.
Typhoon has the ability to break off when needed the F-35 doesn’t.The missile engagement zones will be disproportionately bigger for the Typhoon with AMRAAM 120C and that will increase markedly with the introduction of Meteor.
So you are gonna engage something that you don’t even see at long range with your meteor?
Woaaaw… That is certainly a new dimension in aerial warfare.
TomcatViPGorgeous!!
Thx!
TomcatViPThere are plenty of ways you can contribute to expeditionary coalition warfare. Buying stealthy jets is not the only solution.
Yes but hving that Cap by your own is much more credible. It puts you more easily out of harm’s way such as allowing you to start operating the way you want without having to beg for support right from day one.
Secondly Stealth bring some affordability in your expeditionnary strategy by reducing the footprint of force and lowering your loss rate. This seems to be very well in line with thr Canadian policy.
I don’t think the USAF version really suits the needs of RCAF being more optimized for AtG role than the C could be one day.
Edit: ohhh just read the post above for more arguments for the “C” 🙂
TomcatViPThey should then look at a few dozen LRS_B’s, and just so that they are “COVERED” should go ahead and buy a few hundred PAKDA’s as well 🙂
Aaahh when writting “Projection of Force” I was not thinking in the extreem way the US are meaning it. “Expeditionary” will fit more here according to the US lexical.
TomcatViP[…] and the F-35 isn’t even a cool white elephant (like say, a Mustang or Camaro… its more like an Evo, which, while high performance, doesn’t exactly exude coolness long since they’ve stopped rallying)
Ouuuchh that highly controversial!
Regarding the odds of Canada being flooded by angry Russians or Chineese, I think many here miss the point: with a projected economy you need a projection of force. End of arguments.
My bet would be for the C version of the 35. With a little bit of tweaks it can do a great F106 modern substitute ( and pipe up some R&D to the Canadian industry) while retaining both its AtG cap and settle on the long cooperation with the USN (presumably).
TomcatViPNah. I’m serious though. Against countries/forces with no functional air defence, upgraded 3rd generation is more than acceptable. In many cases even A-1 Skyraiders/A-26 Invader level aircraft with LGB capability would be sufficient – indeed look at usage of Atlantiques as bombers in Mali or large numbers of PC-7/EMB-312/-314 s used as light strikers across the globe.
Libya’s AD was completely useless garbage in 1986 when Yanks bombed them the first time. By 2011 it was largely non-operational and completely obsolete.
Basically these kind of ops are almost zero risk to aircrews – the biggest risk is mechanical failure.
Yeah and they did suffer losses, miss 1/5th of the targets, had to go in low, divert over France and couldn’t get close escort over target. Appart of that Lybia 86 was a piece of cake and could hve been flown with B17… OMG
TomcatViPIMO its better to discuss objectively how the iranians have managed to keep the tomcat alive (which has been discussed many times before) rather than discussing about the saeqeh. As there is not much anyone could say about them, even the iranian aviation enthusiasts…
But if you want to discuss more on the saeqeh (and I know you are thinking of doing a book on the jf17 right?) you could start by:
A) Listing all the serial number of saeqeh that you have found to date with a link to its picture.
B) pictures of a row of saeqeh being built in an assembly line.
C) picture of a saeqeh in primer
D) picture of saeqeh carrying bvr aams
E) cockpit pictures of 2 or more saeqehs to compare.
F) picture of saeqehs radar.
G) info of other squadrons using the saeqeh.
For the ‘cat, it is well known that the IrAF has directly sourced parts in the US Navy inventory, partly via US governement backed program and partly via ” smugling” directly out from stocks of parts.
Since the US Navy hve retired the ‘Cat they are left with canibalising older airframe.
Please note that I never heard abt Phoenix being smugled out. Instead as soon as in the 80’s the sparrow became de facto the main Tomcat’s missile.
My 2 cents…
Regarding the twin Tailed F5 ( does it really deserve a name by itself?), this horror brings more problem than solutions.
TomcatViPTyphoon is less costly, used by the Royal Air Force, and is in many ways more capable than F-35.
Well since Canadians use to drive their procurement the same way my ex-girl friend does her shoping that’s a credible possibility!
Note: I tried to be in the trend of the initial post aswell as keeping a serious tone.
TomcatViPThe operational cost does indeed need to be taken with a pinch of salt, as it is based on a computer model that is periodically updated. Even though the trend is showing a lowered cost, there is plenty of testing that is still left, and only after that has concluded will the model be able to predict anything with a very high degree of certainty.
Marines Put F-35B Flight Costs 17 Percent Lower Than OSD
http://breakingdefense.com/2013/08/21/marines-put-f-35b-flight-costs-17-percent-lower-than-osd/
The most interesting news there is that they achieved those numbers by cutting down the exeternal contracted supports… Another heresy brought down by the F35 😉
TomcatViP5th generation fighters are for those that actually need the added capability. Its entirely possible that some national security needs can be met with 4th gen figthers, some with 4.5 , and some with no fighters at all :). The rafale is perfect, for what sort of use france is going to be putting it on.
So, we now live in a happy world. Good to ear that.
For most of the so called low intensity conflicts, no needs of a Raf platform: Mirage F1, 2k and even the proven Atlantique2 will do the trick.
The prob in our modern world is that tactical fighters hve gained a deterrence cap thanks to the very high level of technology involved and the very low loss ratio that the public expect (even if in France Public still tends to support a higher rate of casualities than other countries).
So all about deterrence is what your are going to agree before being forced to pull the trigger.
Versus certain threat (modern Sam) and 5th gen fighter, without stealth cap, you are definitively forced to swallow a much bigger pill.
A small number of Steath dominance fighter could be enough to level the balance. Maybe it’s time for France to think at the silver bullet option.
TomcatViPGreat stuff Jo and Berkut (btw how one can find the RP pictures that are either not public or on moderation, is there something you have to click on ?)
Regarding those 16 new SMTs, thanks to Paralay i think it’s pretty sure now that they will be partially built airframes from the nineties that are going to be completed, look here there are loads of 9.13, UB etc. still left.
http://saoirse-2010.livejournal.com/21550.html
Thx for that link. Very interesting documents (mechanicaly speaking).
Empty airframe like that in good condition are a luxe many shld stare at with more attention (training purpose).
TomcatViPNo need to use Ceramics.
Limited angle obviously. But useful enough.
All is in the pattern of signature you are targeting. The drone is rail launched and filet recovered so it’s unlikely a strategic VLO aircraft (sorry it’s stated in the info posted above: tactical and expe – UAS Grp 3)
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