Dang the thecnicalities:mad: 😡 😡

Ok, lets try it again. (and this time without any West bashing, OK:) )

The issue isn’t to do with any other country in the world but China

Yeas, If it is too hard for you to follow me, or you have lost the track, let me regap it for you:

First, you came to tell that China is bad and brakes HR as habbitual missconductor, and condemned China and I recall you even try to advocate that US should intervene to free Tibet from their opression.

Seccond phase: I came to tell that you cannot do it, becouse You have no rigth to do so, as we west have no such thing as better morale pose to justify such actions as last time i checked, no morale codex exept some nazi-oriented one allows hegemonies to expand in others expense.

Third phase: You didn’t listen

Fourth Phase: I tryed to explain it to you by telling bit about cultural relevance

Fifth phase: You didn’t listen…

Therefore I came up with that guestion, as I thougth it would make you understand, why your ranting about Chinese HR is useless and has no meaning at all.

Phase six: You didn’t listen, or you didn’t understand, but started to shout that this isen’t about US or other countries.
I admit, it was my fault, I should have used rougher examples, like country A and country B for instance.

So for Last time. (and this time we do it in two phases so that you can follow it trough and point me the exact phase where you lost track)

1) Is china bad and should its government be changed?
If your answer is yeas, then look at guestion 2

2) Should Chinese people accept that someone foreinger tells them that they should replace their government and start following what those foreingers think is rigth or wrong?

if you cannot place yourself in the shoes of chinese people, Think how you would react if chinese came to tell you the same thing that you are telling to them.

No Jon the topic is that us westerners are condemning here China. We come to close the issue of culture-relativism.

So if America raises up your hair, Then think that …well Evil Norwegian Neo-Vikings come to say that UK are monsters and they should replace their laws by new edition of Dannelag and instal government that is pro-Oslo and obeys their obinion of what is rigth or wrong?

But really, you just love to dodge that issue when you know that the answer would cripple your stance against china, so seriously, Im not expecting you to answer to it.
So Feel free to hide behind “You fall into america trap” shouts. I dont really care, I would have just liked to expand your world view and take account point of views that perhaps differers from yours…or wont, depending have you thougth that question….
You know what, I think in your mind you have asked that guestion, and you didn’t like the answer;) 😉 😉 😉 😉 😉 😉

So basicly when all people in earth realises how bad place china is, you will be contented?
Gee, I have to go and tell that to all my chinese pals, Im sure they share your enlighted opinion:rolleyes:

But otherwise than that, You are the best topic-dodger I have encourted with my internet carier…
Afterall, I have admitted that Chinese HR record is bad, all im asking, what gives you rigth to condemn it;)

And speaking of dodging:

As for you question about China and America swapping places, its irrelevent, it wouldn’t happen, can’t happen and is hypothetical rubbish designed to draw the argument away from China.

Dont try to appear like silly child when you aren’t one;) The idea of that guestion is make you think how would a china man think when someone living in US says that they are bad and monsterous people, and they should replace their government by something that the US would approve.
If you can accept that sort of scenario, Im more than willingly accept every critisism towards china. A deal?

Indeed i would agree there are those who seek to demonize China, however that was just one of several thousand articles that google pulled up for me when i did a quick search. There are some horrible accounts of what happen in China, are every single one of them true – probably not in all likely hood but unfortuantly there are vast amounts of evidence that point to many allagations being utterly true, Chinese ‘death buses’ as an example, sounds horrific and it is, and unfortuantly its real and now thankfully fairly common knowlege that no one denies, google up chinese death buses and see for yourself, there not imaginary or made up there real and are an example of the brutal treatment of people in China.
Edit: Garry you fell into the same trap you always do, we are not dicussing America and there Human rights but Chinas record for human rights which only is of a great deal more concern to the rest of the world despite all the whining about camp x-ray.

What exactly makes them true? Becouse they are published? I would like to know what is in your standards of source critisism?

And about America, I agree this isen’t about US HR reccord, its about Tibet, and in my stance, about wheter us westeners have rigth to critisize chinese internal politics. As you have taken the stance that we have, and base that on morale and ethics, it automatically brings the issue to wheter only Chinese HR abuse is condemtable, or should we not allow any HR violations at all.

In my last post I asked about how would you feel if the US and China would have switched places, yet you didn’t answer to me. But even if you think those upon yourself, you will find what the answer is.

I think the reccord will make bigger mark to rock’n roll history if its never released…and I think that Axl knows this…

…Imagine, a record which have been waited for so long suddenly hits the stores and its only medicore from its songs. I mean people are expecting something truly masterpiece but ends up having just another plain album from band that have far seen its heydays. What band have made their finest efforst after the intial breakup? I think Axl knows all this and is too frieghten to release it…

There is no point continue this depate Plawolf. I hate to go to personalities but from your posts it can be seen that you lack the ability to understand the very basic terminology, doctrines and operational enchelons of modern naval warfare. You keep insisting that a small-volume hull catamaran with inadequate self-defence armamament can somehow transform into multi-role littorial combat ship without actually giving any facts or sources to support that view of yours. Also you started to make even more dangerous claims in your very latest post like “022 can travel between the straight of Taiwan several times without any resupply.” That claim is so ridicilous that I do wish that you proof it to me. Give me the size of the fuel tanks onboard that vessel, the fuel-consumption rates in various speeds and the ammount of crew comftability-stores. If you cannot proof your claims, don’t make them.

But altough you may have even the slightest clue about some sort of naval matters, you lack totally the idea of land warfare in modern (or any other) day. Your boasting about “Type 99Gs will start manuvre and with little help of pre-MiG-21 era technology supersonic attack aircrafts (which can move at the speed of light, in order to make your claims valid) can whipe out just about anything that comes agross them” and other, well frankly, mambo jambo just reveals all this. I hate to say this but you sound that your only qualification is to check the performance data from Globalsecurity.org and adjust that data to what you have learned from playing BF2 or some other similar computergames. You take equipments out of their concept, completely ignore the tacktical/strategical implication of them and not even hint of idea about the organisations and their roles of using those equipments.

But your worse crime is that you ignore the ROCA all together. Your “scenarios” would work perfectly if there would’nt be any sizeable enemy units to defend the Iland. Every time in your video-game campaing when the ROCA suprisingly shows up, you just whipe it out in flick of the frist…like you would do in BF2 at the easist level.

You keep saying that As everyone who has ever studies this subject in detail will tell you, once the PLA get ashore in numbers, the game is up. Taiwan’s best and only chance is to stop the invasion in the sea.

Please, I mean Please point them out to me. I insist.

Few fact corrections I do like to make, however.

Thats just plain dumb. If you have a radar that can give you the exact co-ordinates of the enemy, are you going to be prevented from firing on said enemy because your guns can’t aim themselves?

Well first you need to have that radars onboard your intial landing phase (in order to withstand the intial counter-attack). But if we pretend that that is the case then, a question to you:

When the radar spots the enemy artillery shells, explain all the following phases from that point to the point where your onw shells are airbrone, and give the timeframe of these phases (accurace in minutes)

After completing this task, I will then explain what the enemy artillery units did after firing their intial first round and everything else that you might possiply want to know about artillery in general (in the means of my ability, I’m not artillery-god after all;))

Radar gives you co-ordinates to the enemy and you shout that out to your gunners who would aim the guns like they were trained to do. For an ex-artillary man, you sure have a low expectation of what artillarymen can do.

Eh…no. Read the abouve question and try again. And I don’t have low expectation of any artillery mens, I just know what they are actually capable to do in real life

What more, you are forgetting that artillary batteries are large things, not something you can hide easily from observers on the ground, and they do not move all the time when not at war. Camo netting is also going to do ****** all against SAR spysats.

No matter how mobile your battery is, its not going to outrun fighters and attack helos.

I’m not forgetting anything. Do you actually even know what belongs to artillery battery? how many guns, troops, equipments? What it even look like? Your description of it makes it sound it is like some fixed structure, acient battery of some heavy forteress. I bet my hat that you can walk right into “artillery battery” and not even notice it untill some of the troopers tells you to: “**** of, we firing!!” And apparently you have never seen a camoflage net in practice. Thrust me, when a net is deployed, you wont see squat, exspecially if you are flying near 1000km/h in altitude.

And yeas, even the dumbest towed artillery battery can get away from its firepositions faster than it takes to fly from China to Taiwan. I’m not saying it can all the time outrun the airopponent, but it’s not anyway doomed like you are trying to implicate.

So please, why not quit teaching me about the very basics of artillery, I’ve already got them, with blood, sweat and tears. 😉

But again, don’t be too offended, my intentions are not to hurt your feelings but to point out obvious ridicilousness.

But aside from the pointed out questions, I’m ending this. There is no reason to me to repeat myself hundreds of times. Claim yourself victorius or what ever but I strongly suggest that you start paying attention to the bigger picture, not just for the guns. Perhaps you should join your local army??

not guilty, i’ve only ever seen a few clancy films too, hunt for the red october and crimson tide, never read fiction, well read the hobbit as a kid but thats about it oh and a kids book called one white mouse i think when very young, no clancy though.http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/1077.htm for an insight into what i was referring to.

I think you should read more books…but as a bookworm myself I always tell that to everyone:rolleyes: But taking account of your wievs, You migth find Clancy actually rather entertaining…

But then, quating rather dupios articles with no clear stance about their refrencies and how credible their sources are, is not going to convince me from anything else, that There actually are people out there who hate china and want to bash it by every moment they could.:(

PRC birth-controll policy can seem crude to us westeners who has the luxury of be completely unfamilar for the whole proplem, but that doesen’t help the chinese government by any means. Its difficould and proplematic issue, with no easy way out and despite what you decide, the result wont statisfy all…So its cheap call to point that as example of Chinese “evilnes”.

wow, so if they decided to start, i dunno lets say randomly taking peoples babies and murdering them, for nothing but fun or lets actually take this a step futher, they decided to exterminate half there population because they felt like it for fun you’d be ok with that?

Dont try to paint the picture black, they are humans not monsters. If people strat murdering babies, everyone in the heart of the happenings will get infuriate and would step in. No need to be dump, when PRC wouldn’t be that dump either.

I wonder if you’d feel the same about the tiny amount of prisoners in camp x-ray if we started killing them for fun?

Well Im not denying your rigth to be pissed off over such crimes, Only that you cannot act sincerely to stop it when it happens in national wide level. Government is supposed to be the byrocratic element of the people it governs, it cannot be taken out by other element to which that people doesent belong, or to be issued into power by someone else. Otherwise you never achieve true democracy or people’s power.

Consider yourself how would you feel if suddenly some Muslim superpower gets pissed of by your doings in Guantanamo and then comes and reinstalls a government that would follow what in their mind is rigth and what is wrong.

Also you don’t think democracy would be better for China then the appaling communist regime – where the people get to choose there future rather then having a small group (relativley) of elites choose it for them?

1.Communism isent opposite to democracy
2. China isent communist state, it hasen’t even properly achieved socialism. Dont get fooled by names that some party uses.

I wonder how you would feel if a small group of elites in your country decided to run the show, remember they might not like the things you do, such as connecting to the internet and they might not hold the same value for human rights as you do, somehow sir i don’t think you’d appreciate it, do you?

I would rebel and rose into barricades. Haven’t you been following my stance? What Im saying is that If chinese people gets pissed of by their gov. they are the ones that should rebel…
But I would be terribly pissed off if some foreing power would come and use our revolution as attempt to install their own puppet into power so that I would suddenly come a pawn for some foreing hegemony.