tibet

Whilst im not saying Guantanamo bay is a nice place you know as well as do that camp x-ray and water torture are a pathetic comparison to human rights abuse in China, now maybe your just unfamilier with Chinese human rights and I simply dosn’t have the space or time available to go into detail here about it but do a bit of research on it – theres a wealth of info on the web about the subject, you will find a shocking picture one that water boarding and Guantanamo bay pale in comparison too.
Really when you play the moral equivilence game like that it only serves to display a huge lack of knowlege, i’m sorry if thats blunt and verging on rude but thats the way it is. If you’d like me to link some examples of appaling human rights abuses i will.

Ok, hit me with numbers there;) Im not saying that Guantanamo Bay presents US or west most proper way, But its foolish to think that PRC is all about HR reccord.
PRC has its faults yeas, but so does the west and when claiming of “morale superiority” You simply cannot make violations of your own as you at same breathtake bash others from it.
So Im eager to hear why you think US can torture and brake human rigths, as well as Why US is allowed resist all attempts to create common UN led War-crime tribunal, but PRC cannot?
Is west more equal than china?;)

China has the right to handle its internal affairs as it sees fit. Just like the USA did in the 1700 and 1800s, or did the native Americans all of a sudden move somewhere else?

So you are justifying one wrong with the help of another?

Yeah it’s an ugly word but not derogatory in this context.

I think I’ll be the judge of that! 😉

I’m still minded to consider that particular example to be a Code of Conduct breach, to be honest.

And now I’m wandering off topic….. I’ll have to moderate myself! 🙂

Can I just point out that using words such as “hyprocrite” to describe another member could well be considered a Code of Conduct violation? I’m thinking of Rule 5 here.

Let’s keep it respectful, chaps!

Thanks

GA

Yeah it’s an ugly word but not derogatory in this context. I’ll reword it next time.

Moderator Message

Can I just point out that using words such as “hyprocrite” to describe another member could well be considered a Code of Conduct violation? I’m thinking of Rule 5 here.

Let’s keep it respectful, chaps!

Thanks

GA

I damned well wish we would do something about darfur! I wish something was done about Rwanda in time!

That’s the difference which discredits you. Talk is cheap.

The guy was a menace to the region, oh lets not forget a pedophile

You haven’t heard about the Dalai Lama’s fetishes? Here in the states there’s a show on Showtime called Bullsh*t that dispels commonly held beliefs among people. One show they did on Tibet and the Dalai Lama. Not a pretty picture and certainly not the romanticized image of Tibet or the Dalai Lama. China can use the same excuse you used about human rights violations in Iraq for the reason for invading. In Western countries the Dalai Lama’s fetishes would be considered illegal. But then again you’ve shown some people can get away with crimes simply by whose side they’re on.

What gives any one nation the right to impose its set of cultural, ethical, and moral standards on any other?

Ask Washington, London, Beijing and Moscow……they have been doing it for decades.

Being selective with your humanity? So you went into Iraq based on human rights abuses? So why aren’t you invading Darfur? Because China blocks the UN from taking action? You ignored the UN on Iraq. You have no excuse. And also you didn’t do anything in Rwanda and you can’t use the excuse to blame China for blocking you there. What a human rights champion you are. Make excuses for violating rights in Iraq but somehow don’t do anything but give lip-sevice for Darfur, Rwanda, and Tibet.

I damned well wish we would do something about darfur! I wish something was done about Rwanda in time! I think its appaling the lack of progress in Darfur put it wouldn’t be this way if it wasn’t for China and the massive effect the world would see if American and China fell out with each other, yeah suprise suprise China blocked action there,sick if you ask me. You say we ignored the UN on Iraq, well lets see eh, how many years was it,17 springs to mind or something insane of UN wrangling with Iraq that led no where, every country was in agreement that Saddam was not playing the game by the rules, when it came to the very last decision some countrys bottled it and bailed out, voted against it, its all there in the history books go read. The guy was a menace to the region, oh lets not forget a pedophile – a fact often ignored by the media so i can see you may not have known that, still think Saddam should be running the show there and being allowed to take any young girl he likes, sometimes as young as eleven to do as he pleased with to the horror of the childs family to as well as mass murdering thug. You people love to moan about a certain country called America but give those who do far worse not only a free pass but a dedicated defence, unreal i think. :confused:
Anyways i’m off out in hour or so and have to leave off tonight, its been shall we say interesting in seeing just how far people go to defend to undefendable.

You don’t seem to be able to grasp how silly the game of moral equivalence makes you look, yes America has human rights issues, as do many other nations your convenietnly ignoring from the argument, however the Human rights abuses carried out by America and for that matter almost the whole of the rest of the damn planet bar a few other nasty nations such as North Korea simply pale in comparison to the abuses China conducts on it population. Does the fact we or alot of the rest of the world are not perfect mean we should turn our backs and say ‘stuff em let em do as they please’ ? No of course it dosn’t and you know that as well as i do.

And you don’t seem to grasp that you’re a hypocrite. How about the BBC report that India has, by the definition of the word, 300 million slaves because of the caste system there. Sounds like a major human rights violation. No criticism there?

When you make yourself the champion of human rights, there’s no excuse to being selective especially when those that are put under scrutiney are countries you happen to historically hate and the countries ignored happen to be allies.

You asked if you had the right to judge China? Well being a hypocrite shows everyone you don’t because you have no credibilty to tell china what to do while you youself hypocritically defend human rights violations in Iraq. So if China started campaigning about your evil in Iraq, does that mean no one can criticize China on Tibet? And by your simple logic, the Tibetans can be labelled “terrorists” because they, by Western tourist accounts, killed innocent civilains to send a politcal message.

You don’t seem to be able to grasp how silly the game of moral equivalence makes you look, yes America has human rights issues, as do many other nations your convenietnly ignoring from the argument, however the Human rights abuses carried out by America and for that matter almost the whole of the rest of the damn planet bar a few other nasty nations such as North Korea simply pale in comparison to the abuses China conducts on it population. Does the fact we or alot of the rest of the world are not perfect mean we should turn our backs and say ‘stuff em let em do as they please’ ? No of course it dosn’t and you know that as well as i do.

Wow the lie eh? you never seen the pictures of the innocent humans murdered by Saddams WMD i take it? I guess the hundreds of thousands of totally innocent humans that died from the horrific effects of Saddams WMD should be treated as a lie to eh? And you think we should have let him get away with genocidel murder like that too! It might have been late coming but justice was served for the surviving victims and thier families, something your obviously very bitter about,very sad. I would hope if a murdered killed members of your family he would not get a free pass just because it was a decade or so ago, wouldn’t you?

Being selective with your humanity? So you went into Iraq based on human rights abuses? So why aren’t you invading Darfur? Because China blocks the UN from taking action? You ignored the UN on Iraq. You have no excuse. And also you didn’t do anything in Rwanda and you can’t use the excuse to blame China for blocking you there. What a human rights champion you are. Make excuses for violating rights in Iraq but somehow don’t do anything but give lip-sevice for Darfur, Rwanda, and Tibet.

You sound like the communists. Still perpetuating the lie of WMDs? Is that “civilized” hypocrisy so it makes it all right?

Wow the lie eh? you never seen the pictures of the innocent humans murdered by Saddams WMD i take it? I guess the hundreds of thousands of totally innocent humans that died from the horrific effects of Saddams WMD should be treated as a lie to eh? And you think we should have let him get away with genocidel murder like that too! It might have been late coming but justice was served for the surviving victims and thier families, something your obviously very bitter about,very sad. I would hope if a murdered killed members of your family he would not get a free pass just because it was a decade or so ago, wouldn’t you?

So because Britain behaved like idiots centurys ago China can go about oppressing its own people and the people of tibet eh? So instead of trying to create a decent world where humans have a thing called rights that means goverments cannot just execute them at will, for example for not paying thier taxes, we should all just think ‘oh what the hell let them we did it centuries ago it was wrong and we know it but yeah we’ll give you a free pass go ahead and oppress the people of tibet, go ahead and do what the hell you like cos we did, it was morrally disgusting but like i say we did it therefore you can too’

You really want to live in a world like that eh? So if country X tommorow decides to come attack your home country – wage war with your people and execute perhaps members of your family you would like the rest of the world to sit and watch saying ‘its ok we used to do that kinda thing, sorry we won’t help out cos that’d be hypocritical’ …. I think you know the answer as well as i do sir.

You asked if you had the right to judge China? Well being a hypocrite shows everyone you don’t because you have no credibilty to tell china what to do while you youself hypocritically defend human rights violations in Iraq. So if China started campaigning about your evil in Iraq, does that mean no one can criticize China on Tibet? And by your simple logic, the Tibetans can be labelled “terrorists” because they, by Western tourist accounts, killed innocent civilains to send a politcal message.

Well considering Iraqis had appaling human rights and now have a decent chance at turning Iraq into a decent country with proper laws and human rights i think it might just be a good thing in the long run, no Iraqi army rolling into kuwait or iran again and raping and piliging is a bonus too, leaders that won’t use WMD on innocent civilians, women and children in a terror campaign that wiped out as many as 4000 villages and hundreds of thousands of innocent humans, – Yeah i consider it a good thing sure.

You sound like the communists. Still perpetuating the lie of WMDs? Is that “civilized” hypocrisy so it makes it all right?

Ok Godwin, the Nazi party was a bad example. Why? Because Nazi Germany decided to aggressively expand by attacking its neighbors. That was clearly not an internal cultural issue, was it?

Beyond that, my point remains. What gives any one nation the right to impose its set of cultural, ethical, and moral standards on any other?

Oh but it was a cultural thing SOC theres no getting away from that at all, it might not have lasted long – though its perfectly plausable it could still be in power in certain countries right now if it wasn’t for an incredably over ambitious leader named Adolf. Like i say it was a cultural phase and you cannot deny that. As for what gives other nations the right to protest and be agaisnt other nations human rights – heres a clue – the UN, yes that huge thing that China is an active member, and very very important one too, bound in the contract of the UN is issue of human rights, China have signed the contract if you like but wont play buy its rules, theres your ‘right’ as it were right there, and all those who quip about Iraq war being a monsterous decision because they saw it as breaking UN laws (not saying you Soc i do not know your position on that) are being utterly hypocritical or blind when they refuse to recognise Chinas breaking of the rules too by not playing by the rules of the UN. you can’t have it both ways… http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html From the horses/UNs mouth.

Guantanmo Bay? What about the rest of Iraq? Let’s concentrate on one Tibetan that was killed and not the rest.

Well considering Iraqis had appaling human rights and now have a decent chance at turning Iraq into a decent country with proper laws and human rights i think it might just be a good thing in the long run, no Iraqi army rolling into kuwait or iran again and raping and piliging is a bonus too, leaders that won’t use WMD on innocent civilians, women and children in a terror campaign that wiped out as many as 4000 villages and hundreds of thousands of innocent humans, – Yeah i consider it a good thing sure.

And the British are the biggest hypocrites of them all. Destroying cultures have always been a part of the history of the British Empire. Don’t hate China because they successfully fought off being a lemming of the British crown.

I especially like the lies about the Opiums Wars that the Chinese went to war with the British because the British recognized the evils of opium and tried to stop the poor addicted Chinese from using the evil substance. The first international drug cartels weren’t South American. They were British. At least the cartels from South America did it only for money. The British primary use of opium was to destroy people so they could be easier to conquer. Or how about the lie the British gave democracy to the people of Hong Kong. Yeah only the last few years after 150. And it wasn’t a real democracy because the British still got to choose the governor. So quit lying to the world about how “civilized” you are. Especially when the British helped start an illegal war in Iraq. The greatest criminals against human rights in the history of the world have the British on top. Let’s cry about the 200 Tibetans monks the British executed in the 1930s just for warning to the Tibetan people not to interfere with the British love for hunting animals.

So because Britain behaved like idiots centurys ago China can go about oppressing its own people and the people of tibet eh? So instead of trying to create a decent world where humans have a thing called rights that means goverments cannot just execute them at will, for example for not paying thier taxes, we should all just think ‘oh what the hell let them we did it centuries ago it was wrong and we know it but yeah we’ll give you a free pass go ahead and oppress the people of tibet, go ahead and do what the hell you like cos we did, it was morrally disgusting but like i say we did it therefore you can too’

You really want to live in a world like that eh? So if country X tommorow decides to come attack your home country – wage war with your people and execute perhaps members of your family you would like the rest of the world to sit and watch saying ‘its ok we used to do that kinda thing, sorry we won’t help out cos that’d be hypocritical’ …. I think you know the answer as well as i do sir.

Whilst im not saying Guantanamo bay is a nice place you know as well as do that camp x-ray and water torture are a pathetic comparison to human rights abuse in China, now maybe your just unfamilier with Chinese human rights and I simply dosn’t have the space or time available to go into detail here about it but do a bit of research on it – theres a wealth of info on the web about the subject, you will find a shocking picture one that water boarding and Guantanamo bay pale in comparison too.
Really when you play the moral equivilence game like that it only serves to display a huge lack of knowlege, i’m sorry if thats blunt and verging on rude but thats the way it is. If you’d like me to link some examples of appaling human rights abuses i will.

Guantanmo Bay? What about the rest of Iraq? Let’s concentrate on one Tibetan that was killed and not the rest.

**cough*Guantanamo bay***water-torture**…krhmm….
:diablo:

Whilst im not saying Guantanamo bay is a nice place you know as well as do that camp x-ray and water torture are a pathetic comparison to human rights abuse in China, now maybe your just unfamilier with Chinese human rights and I simply dosn’t have the space or time available to go into detail here about it but do a bit of research on it – theres a wealth of info on the web about the subject, you will find a shocking picture one that water boarding and Guantanamo bay pale in comparison too.
Really when you play the moral equivilence game like that it only serves to display a huge lack of knowlege, i’m sorry if thats blunt and verging on rude but thats the way it is. If you’d like me to link some examples of appaling human rights abuses i will.

Wow, yeah lets excuse pityfull human rights under the excuse of culture, come on you know better then that SOC, perhaps we, meaning whatever country your from could use the old culture excuse to do as we please, imagine the world then ‘oh that genocide in Africa – thats just thier culture’ or ‘oh that country invading another country – oh don’t worry its just thier culture’ or ‘oh that country uses chemical weapons on its own people – don’t worry its just thier culture’ I think you get the point, the culture excuse holds no water in this day and age, its a pityfull excuse for appalling treatment of fellow human beings, hey i guess while were at it the Nazi party was a cultural phase for the German people, we should have let them continue. :rolleyes:

And let’s excuse hypocrites that try to hide their human rights violations, i.e. the Iraq War, by trying to focus attention on someone else. Or hide them by behind the shield that you care about human rights. Now I know what they mean by Weapons of Mass Distraction.