JonesyJonesyDont see it that way Mister. The ship is taking its weapons system, including hardware, directly from T23 in the main. The 3D search/TI set is already chosen in the shape of ARTISAN. The air defence missile system is determined, already under development and should also be being transferred from the Dukes.
£127mn to integrate a lot of pre-existing systems with an existing hull is a lot!. When you see idiotic features like the father/son hangar it does make you wonder quite what is being paid for here?.
JonesyLets face it this is some naval architects tinkering. So much wrong with this its ridiculous to assume that it bears any relation to a design that could be fabricated.
More irritating than the oddities on the artwork though, for me, is this £127mn price tag for ‘design work’. Type45 hullform boys and girls…..already designed lets not pay BAE again just to let the design team go off on a fantasy-ship design kick.
Lets have the scarce defence resources spent on building the ships…not calculating how small a UAV hangar can be before scrapping it for a set of double doors on a full width hangar, as an economy measure, at the build phase!:mad:
JonesyWorkmate used to drive an 18 wheeler for a while and he told a very similar story that happened to him once going southbound down the M6. He’d picked up the M6 at Manchester joining on the Lymm slip. He’s heading down past Crewe/Stoke way when he becomes aware that people are flashing him from behind and indicating when they passed.
He checked his mirrors and gave the steering a bit of a shake to see if he had a trailer door open or a lost tyre…he couldn’t see anything or hear anything so he moved over to the slow lane and dropped his speed down a bit.
He made it, apparently, nearly to the Tamworth turnoff when a Police Range Rover raced up alongside full blues and two’s indicating that he should pull over and do it at the rush!.
He does this and, as soon as his wheels stop, he watches bemused while one copper race down the hard shoulder to the back of his trailer. The other copper jogs over to him and asks him if he knew that he’d been dragging a car all the way down from Lymm!.
Apparently a little Yugo45 had come down the slip a little too fast and gone into the back of his trailer and gotten locked up on the metalwork at the back. My mate hadn’t felt the impact and had kept going oblivious!!. People had been trying to alert him to the fact it was there all the way but, because he couldnt see it in his mirrors he was none the wiser!.
JonesyWorkmate used to drive an 18 wheeler for a while and he told a very similar story that happened to him once going southbound down the M6. He’d picked up the M6 at Manchester joining on the Lymm slip. He’s heading down past Crewe/Stoke way when he becomes aware that people are flashing him from behind and indicating when they passed.
He checked his mirrors and gave the steering a bit of a shake to see if he had a trailer door open or a lost tyre…he couldn’t see anything or hear anything so he moved over to the slow lane and dropped his speed down a bit.
He made it, apparently, nearly to the Tamworth turnoff when a Police Range Rover raced up alongside full blues and two’s indicating that he should pull over and do it at the rush!.
He does this and, as soon as his wheels stop, he watches bemused while one copper race down the hard shoulder to the back of his trailer. The other copper jogs over to him and asks him if he knew that he’d been dragging a car all the way down from Lymm!.
Apparently a little Yugo45 had come down the slip a little too fast and gone into the back of his trailer and gotten locked up on the metalwork at the back. My mate hadn’t felt the impact and had kept going oblivious!!. People had been trying to alert him to the fact it was there all the way but, because he couldnt see it in his mirrors he was none the wiser!.
JonesyIn the same vein there was the apocryphal tale of the radio chatter between a USAF B-52 and F-15 post intercept drill.
The Eagle pilot has just managed his merge and administratively ‘downed’ the BUFF and is feeling quite expansive. Just to show who’s boss he plugs in the heaters, goes vertical, snaps a few rolls and loops it back round into formation. ‘You try and do that over there then’ he boasts over the radio.
The B-52 commander replies that the display was very impressive and advises the Eagle pilot to watch closely. After two minutes he’s back on the radio to the F-15
‘There you go – you try and do THAT over there then!’.
The Eagle pilot is bemused. He was in perfect formation, in straight and level all the while. ‘What did you do?’ he says.
“I just turned off two engines!!!”
JonesyIn the same vein there was the apocryphal tale of the radio chatter between a USAF B-52 and F-15 post intercept drill.
The Eagle pilot has just managed his merge and administratively ‘downed’ the BUFF and is feeling quite expansive. Just to show who’s boss he plugs in the heaters, goes vertical, snaps a few rolls and loops it back round into formation. ‘You try and do that over there then’ he boasts over the radio.
The B-52 commander replies that the display was very impressive and advises the Eagle pilot to watch closely. After two minutes he’s back on the radio to the F-15
‘There you go – you try and do THAT over there then!’.
The Eagle pilot is bemused. He was in perfect formation, in straight and level all the while. ‘What did you do?’ he says.
“I just turned off two engines!!!”
JonesyI wonder how many folk given the option,could kill a ten year old..
There is an important distinction to make here between ‘a ten year old’ and those two specific ten year olds. The answer to the former would likely be very, very few. The answer to the latter was a very large section of a community!.
JonesyI wonder how many folk given the option,could kill a ten year old..
There is an important distinction to make here between ‘a ten year old’ and those two specific ten year olds. The answer to the former would likely be very, very few. The answer to the latter was a very large section of a community!.
JonesyActually I was trying to understand if those who suggested ‘stringing them up’ were really prepared for the reality of capital punishment after proper legal process, when the condemned were two ten-year-olds. My suggestion being that, in the cold light of day, none of us would be prepared to see it happen, let alone, carry it out.
The crowd that waited for Venables and Thompson outside Preston Crown Court, and tried to get through a police cordon to get at them locked inside a van, would seem to suggest there will always be some willing to carry it out. Like most things I imagine, as you note, there is a proximity issue. The closer you are, or even just ‘feel’, to something the more focussed you are on it.
I’m not sure that your malaria analogy is quite appropriate as, despite relatively easy prevention, its not a considered and wilful act of aggression on the part of the mosquito that delivers the disease. There is no ‘wrong’ as such in the contraction of malaria.
The strength of family and community in Liverpool is still suprisingly high and events such as Hillsborough and Jamie Bulgers murder brought that out very, very starkly. That sense of community, with the level of depravity shown by Venables and Thompson, combined to make it an event that was felt very profoundly in the city. That proximity is still felt as well.
JonesyActually I was trying to understand if those who suggested ‘stringing them up’ were really prepared for the reality of capital punishment after proper legal process, when the condemned were two ten-year-olds. My suggestion being that, in the cold light of day, none of us would be prepared to see it happen, let alone, carry it out.
The crowd that waited for Venables and Thompson outside Preston Crown Court, and tried to get through a police cordon to get at them locked inside a van, would seem to suggest there will always be some willing to carry it out. Like most things I imagine, as you note, there is a proximity issue. The closer you are, or even just ‘feel’, to something the more focussed you are on it.
I’m not sure that your malaria analogy is quite appropriate as, despite relatively easy prevention, its not a considered and wilful act of aggression on the part of the mosquito that delivers the disease. There is no ‘wrong’ as such in the contraction of malaria.
The strength of family and community in Liverpool is still suprisingly high and events such as Hillsborough and Jamie Bulgers murder brought that out very, very starkly. That sense of community, with the level of depravity shown by Venables and Thompson, combined to make it an event that was felt very profoundly in the city. That proximity is still felt as well.
JonesyBut that was their age at the time, Jonesy.
What they did was terrible, almost beyond belief.
But they were tried and sentenced as children because that – whether Some Bloke On The Internet accepts it or not – is what they were at the time.
My own view on this I’ve repeated too often. They weren’t children.
They were actually tried, owing to the severity of the crimes, in Preston Crown Court and so, because Crown Courts are not obliged to consider age, they could have been handed down adult sentences. Shame of it is that they received leniency regardless.
JonesyBut that was their age at the time, Jonesy.
What they did was terrible, almost beyond belief.
But they were tried and sentenced as children because that – whether Some Bloke On The Internet accepts it or not – is what they were at the time.
My own view on this I’ve repeated too often. They weren’t children.
They were actually tried, owing to the severity of the crimes, in Preston Crown Court and so, because Crown Courts are not obliged to consider age, they could have been handed down adult sentences. Shame of it is that they received leniency regardless.
JonesyI understand that public feelings were running very high but I cannot see the justification for any form of ‘justice’ by the mob in killing Jon Venables and Robert Thompson or their parents…..and certainly not by anybody who wasn’t actually related to James Bulger.
As I said I’m certain that ‘justice’ as a mechanism wouldnt have been served. I certainly made no reference to it when I described the environment I remember. It would have been legally indefensible – no argument there. You asked whether those two 10 year olds would actually have been ‘strung up’ though. Going by what I remember of that time, simply, the answer is yes.
GA,
The fact remains that they were aged ten when they killed that poor lad, Jonesy.That’s probably why people keep mentioning it.
They were physically 10 years old. You know, or have ever heard of, any other 10 year olds that have displayed that level of sadism?. I haven’t. Would you describe that level of sadism as something a child would be capable of?. I wouldn’t. Mentally they weren’t children and judging them on chronological age is what has led to the travesty of their sentencing.
JonesyI understand that public feelings were running very high but I cannot see the justification for any form of ‘justice’ by the mob in killing Jon Venables and Robert Thompson or their parents…..and certainly not by anybody who wasn’t actually related to James Bulger.
As I said I’m certain that ‘justice’ as a mechanism wouldnt have been served. I certainly made no reference to it when I described the environment I remember. It would have been legally indefensible – no argument there. You asked whether those two 10 year olds would actually have been ‘strung up’ though. Going by what I remember of that time, simply, the answer is yes.
GA,
The fact remains that they were aged ten when they killed that poor lad, Jonesy.That’s probably why people keep mentioning it.
They were physically 10 years old. You know, or have ever heard of, any other 10 year olds that have displayed that level of sadism?. I haven’t. Would you describe that level of sadism as something a child would be capable of?. I wouldn’t. Mentally they weren’t children and judging them on chronological age is what has led to the travesty of their sentencing.
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