JonesyInterest rate cut and further QE to stave off recession. We were set for growth prior to the vote. Don’t think it needs to be any more complex than that to be honest.
This amused me:
JonesyYou are missing the point. It’s not about desexing people. It is about not presuming one sex should prefer particular role models/hobbies/colours and encouraging free choice across the board. And it’s about a hit seeing the in store adverts and making the connection that this is what girls have and this what boys have. I don’t think that’s hard to follow.
Girls WANT different things than boys though!. I can tell you that from extensive experience. The two genders are quite different and designed as such for very good biological reasons. You simply cannot avoid that very fundamental point. You can say that there are effete boys and ‘tomboy’ girls….of course there are. These are the minority though and society isnt driven by the minority however much agonised hand-wringing you may choose to apply.
Human nature, as you note above, is based upon societal groups and those groups are invariably tribal in some fashion…be it skin colour, hair colour, religion, team alliegance, gender or whatever. To society, whatever anyone says, it is not ‘normal’ for a boy to play with makeup and barbie dolls any more than it is ‘normal’ for a girl to emerge from the muddy puddle, triumphantly caked, clutching the try scoring rugby ball. Either CAN do either thing …there is no actual impediment….but it is undeniably not ‘normal’. That is not a bad thing either.
Societies lauded view of the definitive male and female specimens, in any society I’ve experienced, has never been androgynous. Male and female characteristics have evolved over a very long period, are cherished in our social groupings, and have served the species very well. Reinforcing the distinctiveness and strength of those characteristics only reinforces success. Just as there should not be an impediment to boys or girls blurring defined gender roles there should also be no impediment to those roles being celebrated and reinforced.
JonesyBut Jonesy. None of these things such as horses, unicorns, Barbies etc are ‘girls stuff’ they are defined as girls stuff by the people who market them.
Marketing people?. In my case it was friends and relatives….perhaps slaves to gender nazism themselves??. Or more likely they just remembered what they liked playing with when they were kids themselves eh?
Only because others at nursery had that interest were our girls then following suit. Before it had beern more what would be termed ‘boys stuff’. Why did the girls at nursery like this stuff? Well we soon found out it was because there parents bought them this stuff from an early early age, setting them up for these interests.
So its societal norms that you have issue with?. That’s not really related to this specific clothing is it?. Society recognises gender based on a very long period of self observation!!!.
I’m not sure there’s much of a link here to the suffragettes nor to historical female ‘subjugation’ either. This is a question of gender identity. I see no reason to be concerned if boys wish to have a strong and distinct gender identity from girls and vice versa. The concern would be if such a seperation saw one side dominant. There is little evidence for that now and the issue of a few shirts is of absolutely no consequence. Why can’t boys be proud to be boys and girls be proud to be girls???.
JonesyLarry, in isolation it’s one small issue but go to any toy shop, children’s book shop or clothes shop and you’ll see this trend to pigeonholing continues. Do you think that’s ok or do you think that we should encourage everyone to be a racing driver, scientist, pilot or indeed prince / princess if they want to be.
Not sure this isnt a self-righting issue?.
I’ve got three girls at 8, 9 and 20yrs all of them like horses, princesses and unicorns!. The eldest girl went through a phase of liking jet fighters….or more likely as this was roughly 15-17yrs old….liking jet fighter pilots but, apart from the 9yr old once making the declaration that when she grew up she wanted to be a ninja, they’ve pretty much been always been interested in ‘girls stuff’. Is society pigeonholing them….dont think so….they just like what they like and, at least some of the time, like to do the same stuff their mates do.
Ironically enough from observation I’d have said there is more ‘gender agnostic’ entertainment out there now than ever before….my younger two are both avid online players of Minecraft and there are several ‘celebrity’ gamers that they like to emulate…..these, notably, are male and female in equal measure.
If it isnt broke…..???
Jonesy:rolleyes:
Doesn’t fit well with your agenda either does it?. Shame that!
JonesyNow the Italians get in on the act
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An image of 2 senior imams at a Christian mass in Rome. You want to scare IS forget the 9mm. Show them Islam integrating into the modern multi-faith world.
In other news IS forces have just been pushed out of Palmyra….good news day on those accounts.
JonesySaid it for years. One of the terrorists most powerful weapons is the greed of the wests mass media….
You can see it happening now clearly. There are fully fledged atrocities occurring in Africa and the far flung corners of the ‘stans. Dead Nigerians or Kazakhs though don’t sell papers or website advertising space. So we, in Europe and the anglosphere, hear next to nothing.
It’s the BBC broadcasting the Goose Green assault again and again and no-one has the balls to run the gauntlet of ‘freedom of the press’ and censorship screams by a media machine that’s lost any hint of integrity in the need to provide 24/7 content. Until we get responsible media control we will continue to have full battle damage assessment and recruitment for the enemy being performed by our own media outlets.
JonesyUnlike the Mail and the Express, keen to use the latest figures to prove their point, even though they largely relate to the period before the vote, I’m not making any pronouncements as yet. The next set of growth data is the one we need to see; after which I will be happy to moderate my position if required.
Agreed. The pronouncement that ‘we’ve recovered’ also fails to take into account the steps that have had to be taken to cushion the blow of Brexit as well. The abandonment of the budget surplus target…..the guarantees that Carney has had to make that prevents funds being used elsewhere.
The universal consensus that growth will, at best, flatline in the UK is what will need watching. Only after that will we have to worry about EEA membership or lack thereof if, as things appear now, there will be no way through other then signing on to the free movement accord. We’re barely in the woods yet….let alone nearly out of them.
Jonesy..I say let them have their damn Caliphate, let it be seen to be the sham that it is, and don’t give them the excuse to blame its failure on a ‘war’ with those that don’t hold with their (extreme) ‘religious’ beliefs!
That was the mistake with the Taleban in Afghan after the Russians folded their tents and backed out….we cant make that one again. We turn a blind eye to the caliphate and we allow a safe harbour for the real extremists to thrive. Islam isnt going away so we want it fully exposed to, and increasingly engaged with, the modern world….we dont want to allow enclaves of medieval thought to remain. The forces in theatre are rolling up IS territory…we dont have to do more than status quo and that problem will look after itself.
JonesyInfantile summary.
Infantile response to summary. Please expand….that is the idea of a discussion board.
JonesyThat is some stick with which to beat them ! Trust the French to come up with a measure of such severity. ISIL will be quaking in their open toed, camel leather sandals as they achieve ‘martyrdom’ and Paradise via a 9mm between the eyes.
I’d be very surprised if there is even just one more Islamic terrorist inspired assault !
Thanks for staying in character John.
JonesyCan only reiterate what I said before CD. In terms of its credibility in the Muslim world the caliphate is judged by the very tangible size of its territory and its wealth. We’ve successfully attacked both. It’s lost a significant proportion of both.
It’s strategic position is poor also…it’s the old joke of ‘wouldn’t want to start from here’. It’s being rolled up from the east currently…and, given its entire standing military force is essentially a couple of divisions of light infantry with modest armour and artillery attachments, it’s not going north or south. The Israelis would obliterate them if they even looked funny in their direction and the Turks, even in the state their forces are in, would slaughter IS in a conventional fight.
The caliphate then is going nowhere but backwards. We have made a contribution albeit a modest one.
That doesn’t really have a huge bearing on the violence we’ve seen recently though. If IS vanished tomorrow there would still be events in France, Germany, Belgium, the US etc because there will still be ars&h0les who think they’ve been wronged and that society should pay a price for not seeing their personal greatness.
JonesyI don’t think that I ‘need’ to understand – I perfectly do understand, believe me.
I dont think you do understand. There are three pillars to this debate and you seem to be trying to address them as one issue. They are Terrorism, Immigration and IS/Global Caliphate. The three aren’t directly connected except in the minds of media editors and those who want to demonise immigration.
I think its hard to say that we are in some way turning the other cheek when it comes to IS as an element alone. We are hitting them in their very secular bank accounts. We are hitting their infrastructure and we are hitting their forces in the field. I dont know how that is something you appear to interpret as being meek and ineffectual.On the Caliphate element armed force has a part to play….IS’s legitimacy is founded on their ability to define a territory for its adherents. If its territory is lost its legitimacy is lost and it can be marginalised.
That alone does not address the terrorism aspect though. Terrorism existed before IS and will exist after IS in some slightly different manifestation. This is the part that is addressed by us holding fast to those values we both agree need to be upheld. This is the generational challenge. This is the part that is catastrophically undermined by the willingness to entertain the morons view and build the walls and accuse the innocent.
Neither of those things are directly underpinned by immigration. The 7/7 bombers weren’t immigrants. The 9/11 bombers weren’t immigrants. Immediately ceasing all immigration would be no guarantee of even significantly reducing the potential for terrorism in a country.
Our current dual track approach of arms-length military intervention, where intervention can be productive, allied to a calm, resolved and steadfast stance against the opportunistic violence that is occurring now is the correct one. I’m sure James Bond will be doing his bit in the shadows along the way as well, as you suggest, but I hope never to hear of it.
In the meantime one of the strongest blows we’ve yet struck has just been inflicted by the French it seems. Hope our media has the fortitude to follow their lead.
JonesyDo you really believe that droves of Muslims would admit to their desire to engage in jihad ? Yes, we should be careful exactly as we were careful during the 1930’s to avoid annoying Herr Hitler and the nascent Nazi party. We then called it appeasement – I suppose it could be that still.
John, that first question is the problem. You are happy with the idea that all Muslims should be asked the question!. You don’t seem to grasp the meaning of what you are saying.
Granted we can focus anti terror efforts against a certain community on the main. Just as we could during the troubles. We can never say guilty until proved innocent though.
We cannot lose our values because it’s those values that differentiate us from them. We kill innocent civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria but we don’t ever target them. They aim at civilians. There’s a difference only as long as we have a credible set of values and beliefs that put us over them.
This doesn’t end with every ISIS member dead and a wall around the Middle East. There is no military solution here. This ends with ISIS withering on the vine when nobody buys into their message. This ends when the values of the open, inclusive and progressive society are proven more attractive than tribalism and conflict.
It’s a conflict my great grandkids will still be fighting. There is no Hollywood style victory here and the death toll in innocent lives will be monstrous. There is no alternative though. Any other approach gives the enemy the victory.
You need to understand John that your rhetoric works for them not us and you need to look at things a bit further down the track.
JonesyThe media reports that list one guy as engaging in a terror attack only after being on the local law enforcement watchlist after mundane petty crimes and then being slated for being shipped off back to Bulgaria. The point then being where he was devoutly radicalised. Unless being an unspectacular, useless, fkup was a cunning disguise perhaps and he was secretly building a cover eh?. Right!.
The German lad is listed in the media as having a morbid fascination with mass killings. The fact he drew his inspiration from an extremist Christian says everything about this.
The list goes on. The perpetrators of too many of these events aren’t trained fighters. There’s no coordination or background in tactics or strategy like the Paris attacks or Brussels or 7/7 on London or the IRA bombing in Warrington. They’re opportunists with an opportunity and a grudge…..mostly a grudge that they aren’t rich and successful as they think they deserve…they lash out because they are pitiful and can’t cope. It’s the same motivation for violence the world over and it’s stuff all to do with religion. The only people connecting those kinds of events with religion are the mass media, who need to create a scary enemy to keep selling their rags to the easily duped, and those who want to hear that an entire race is their implacable foe as it justifies their inherent dislike of some group or other.
Those attacks, once again, werent to do with pursuing the global caliphate any more than the lad in Orlando was……and IS tried to claim that one too John. It was an angry sad act with an opportunity to make others pay for their inadequacy.
Do you not see the danger, RpR, in branding an entire race unjustly when we build our society on being the just?
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