Perhaps because “debate” here usually involves stereotypes, name calling and generally bad manners.

True…..but there is usually a topic around which those elements are incorporated.

Latched on to that one pretty quick MBS. Sure, an attack on a church makes this more of a religious issue and is more an alert of the kind of thing you’ve been talking about.

What it does do though, which you can not deny, is to show exactly what I was talking about before in sharp relief. The earlier attacks I mentioned were no more ‘islamic’ than the guy in Japan with his victims. They were nutjobs out on their own agenda and that agenda was their own secular grievance….denied asylum….mass-killer fixation….etc.

Now, good for you, you’ve got a ‘real’ (probably) islamic attack to crow about. Its a a couple of men who’ve picked up knives somewhere and walked into a church. I’m not sure thats a terrorist atrocity on the 9/11 level and I’m damned sure that two blokes with knives aren’t enough to be classed as an invasion of Europe are they.

Jonsey,

You can’t defend the indefensible. Regardless of the nuances – whether an offender is a Muslim, whether the culprit is an allegedly disadvantaged, poverty stricken refugee or economic migrant is beside the point. It isn’t surely difficult to see that practically the whole of Europe is in ferment if not most of the Western world.

If, and I repeat if, it is a minority of Muslim believers who are creating the mayhem, then they are having an effect out of all proportion to their numbers. If they are a minority there seems to be no end to their numbers.

What we are witnessing, to my interpretation, is the march of militant Islam. Nothing less. There are repeated denunciations of the West and repeated confirmations of the desire to establish a world wide Caliphate. How can your protestations ignore these matters; these expressions of intent ?

Onlookers to this discussion would be fazed beyond all reasonable belief that any thinking person could begin to mount a defence of this appalling situation. we in the West are besieged, there is no other explanation and the situation is getting worse.

At what point will you decide that there is some merit in at least some of the arguments that oppose you ?

There is no merit in what you write John. Its demented Trump-thought. Lets build a wall around the Middle East eh John….lets round up all the Muslims….theyre all as bad as each other after all….they are all complicit yes?. Is that the message?. Its what you appear to be saying?.

We in the West are besieged?. Are we really?. This reminds me of a great discussion I had with someone else with your train of racism. They were talking about Sharia law in the UK. How 20% of Muslims thought the UK should convert to Sharia. He said that was a dire threat to the western tradition of British society. Does that sound familiar to you John?.

I made the point that there’s about 2500000 Muslims in the UK. 20% of 2500000 is 500,000 people. Half a million people out of a country of 65 million. Lets do the maths….500000/65000000×100 = 0.7. Seven-tenths of one percent. Dire threat. See earlier comment about context.

This is not the march of militant Islam….to suggest so ignores the simple fact that, especially recently, the attacks made are, well, secular in nature. Poor old MBS even got thrown a curve-ball by the German lad in Munich. He’s trying to play the German-Iranian card to try and recover the Islamic connection of course….but the lads inspiration being a Christian extremist makes full mockery of that doesn’t it.

I’m not defending the indefensible John. I’m telling you what a mature and rational adult should be well aware of. Immigration and Terrorism are two widely separate issues despite the absurd attempts to conflate them by those with their own petty narrow-minded agendas.

Do you have reading comprehension problems gents?

Shall we walk you through this again?. I know the slavering and knuckle dragging must make it hard to concentrate 😀

The last guy with his backpack bomb…failed asylum seeker with a grudge and ‘nothing to lose’….
the young lad before him….a serial-killer wannabe little different to any one of the US high-school shooters.
The Orlando bloke…angry nutjob who venomously hated everyone who would fit into a definable social grouping including hispanics, gays, jews…pretty much everyone.

Do we see an islamic cause there?. Look really hard!!!.

Wakey, wakey

and John…..

I’m a humanist….I just dont like people who stupidly skew facts to fit their own petty prejudices 🙂

I’d put money on they’re all Muslim…

….and the IRA were all catholic so what?. The motivation was secular in each case.

Is there a point there?. The IMF are still saying our growth will be restricted compared to the more educated vote result. They’re still saying that the UK exit has ‘thrown a spanner’ in the global economic recovery. It’s not much of a backtrack in all fairness is it?

As for the formidable mme Lagarde perhaps let’s wait for the conviction before deciding her guilt?.

18yr old German did you say?. So not an immigrant in Merkels recent flood?. Thats inconvenient for you.

….and yes the policies of inclusiveness are working quite well over there. I visit quite frequently and their culture is impressive.

Simple analogy…..beloved family dog gets fleas. Do you cure the fleas or shoot the dog?.

Or more in context ‘dangerous unknowns instead of constructive normality’. There being no slavery in our circumstances of course.

Anyway….

Government have scrapped the budget surplus target. IMF have down rated our growth figures and said we’ve screwed up global recovery and Sturgeon is agitating to split the union again. So pretty much what Remain was saying all along.

All for nothing. The French have just reconfirmed no EEA membership without Schengen and we’re still not going to get 350mn extra a week into the NHS.

Good result lads you keep patting yourselves on the back!.