OtakuI think RuArmy has slated Ka-52 for special purpose/scouting missions, whilst Mi-28N is the all-out battlefield attack helo.
[ATTACH]173243[/ATTACH]
OtakuMedal, HeliExpo’09 pdf.s should be available next week & I’ll post them up. Apologies UAZ, I’m a bit rusty on the Ka-52 programme.
[ATTACH]173165[/ATTACH]
OtakuOtakuS-300PMU & S-400 recently on parade:
OtakuIndia needs its MRCA to be delivered from 2014-15 onwards atleast and JSF will probbaly only be available for non partner nations much further down the line.
Pakistan’s descent into Hell will likely increase it’s political-bargaining leverage with a nervous Washington struggling to contain it’s ‘War on Terror’– with no end in sight. China ‘bankrolling’ the US Govt. will not be without strings either.
In this climate, it would be wise & prudent for the Indian Govt./AF to select the Eurocanards for the MMRCA, perhaps in reduced numbers if cost is an issue.
OtakuRSK MiG’s status under OAK/UAC appears uncertain, but today it looks like it’ll end up as Sukhoi’s sub-contractor. Regardless, it won’t be the MiG-35 that saves it as a design house, it’s far too late in the day for Pogosyan to pull-off another Su-30 story- I think he realises that. His function is probably to save the best bits, audit the hefty debts and send the bill to Govt.
Having said that……..if MiG can design a relatively inexpensive, lightweight 5G fighter (partnering other nations) that can compete with the F-35 on price (:D:D:D) & capability- then there might be a glimmer of hope. RuAF will certainly buy it, but the Rus Govt. definitely won’t fund it.
Maybe MiG can jump into bed with India’s MCA?!
There’s certainly a niche in the market, somewhere between PAK-FA- too heavyweight & expensive and F-35 -too expensive with ToT headaches/export refusal.
Go Mr. PoGo!! Spin your magic!!
OtakuPineapples are more relevant than Scooter.
OtakuPineapples are more relevant than Scooter.
OtakuIsraeli JSF Plans
AW&ST Feb 27, 2009
By David A. FulghumThe prohibition against putting an Israeli-made electronic warfare/attack system into the U.S.-made F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) is only about number three in the list of impediments to finalizing a deal for delivery of early-production models of the F-35A to the Israeli Air Force (IAF).
Price is number one, Israeli industrial participation is two and only then comes the issue of who provides the electronic warfare/attack (EW/EA) package. While the radar and EW/EA systems are combined in the U.S. models, an IAF general with insight into the negotiations says the U.S. has expressed no concerns about the U.S. putting an Israeli-built, active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar into the F-35.
Sticking point
The problem arises when the EW/EA system’s techniques generator is connected to the radar to produce electronic effects for insertion into enemy sensors of jamming, false targets and other misinformation. The U.S. won’t turn over its EW software to be modified.
But the U.S. and Israel aren’t past the first major step – the price. The sales price with spares, manuals and long-term technical help is “more than $100 million each.” IAF officials won’t reveal the asking price, but they do say that if the price was only $100 million each, the deal would have already been signed for 75 aircraft.
Nailing down the price of an F-35 is a complicated task. One problem is that the earlier you buy them, the more they cost and production isn’t scheduled to end until 2035. “There is no such thing as ‘What JSF costs,’” says U.S. Air Force Maj. Gen. Charles Davis, the F-35 program executive official. “If you give me a year, a variant and a number [in the buy] I can give you a ballpark.”
Bench marks
There are a few bench marks. The first low-rate production lot of two F-35As cost about $200 million each, Davis says. The second lot of six aircraft cost about $160 million (2008 dollars without the engines) each. And by 2014, at the end of LRIP, F-35As are predicted to cost $70 million-$75 million (in 2014 dollars) each and Short Takeoff and Vertical Landing (STOVL) variants will be coming in at $80 million-$85 million, he says.(:rolleyes:)
Foreign customers are not going to get gouged in the pricing unless they want something extra, he say. For example, the Royal Air Force will pay the same for their F-35B Short Takeoff and Vertical Landing aircraft that the U.S. Marine Corps does.
But the cost to anyone will be hard to predict. The issue, Davis explains, is the difference between the year of purchase, the exchange rate, and flyaway cost versus the cost when training, spares and long-term sustainment and other issues that vary over time are included. If not for escalating threats in the region, like the introduction of the SA-20 surface-to-air missile, the IAF would have preferred to wait several years before ordering its first F-35s.
Nice thread scoots, don’t have nightmares.
OtakuIsraeli JSF Plans
AW&ST Feb 27, 2009
By David A. FulghumThe prohibition against putting an Israeli-made electronic warfare/attack system into the U.S.-made F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) is only about number three in the list of impediments to finalizing a deal for delivery of early-production models of the F-35A to the Israeli Air Force (IAF).
Price is number one, Israeli industrial participation is two and only then comes the issue of who provides the electronic warfare/attack (EW/EA) package. While the radar and EW/EA systems are combined in the U.S. models, an IAF general with insight into the negotiations says the U.S. has expressed no concerns about the U.S. putting an Israeli-built, active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar into the F-35.
Sticking point
The problem arises when the EW/EA system’s techniques generator is connected to the radar to produce electronic effects for insertion into enemy sensors of jamming, false targets and other misinformation. The U.S. won’t turn over its EW software to be modified.
But the U.S. and Israel aren’t past the first major step – the price. The sales price with spares, manuals and long-term technical help is “more than $100 million each.” IAF officials won’t reveal the asking price, but they do say that if the price was only $100 million each, the deal would have already been signed for 75 aircraft.
Nailing down the price of an F-35 is a complicated task. One problem is that the earlier you buy them, the more they cost and production isn’t scheduled to end until 2035. “There is no such thing as ‘What JSF costs,’” says U.S. Air Force Maj. Gen. Charles Davis, the F-35 program executive official. “If you give me a year, a variant and a number [in the buy] I can give you a ballpark.”
Bench marks
There are a few bench marks. The first low-rate production lot of two F-35As cost about $200 million each, Davis says. The second lot of six aircraft cost about $160 million (2008 dollars without the engines) each. And by 2014, at the end of LRIP, F-35As are predicted to cost $70 million-$75 million (in 2014 dollars) each and Short Takeoff and Vertical Landing (STOVL) variants will be coming in at $80 million-$85 million, he says.(:rolleyes:)
Foreign customers are not going to get gouged in the pricing unless they want something extra, he say. For example, the Royal Air Force will pay the same for their F-35B Short Takeoff and Vertical Landing aircraft that the U.S. Marine Corps does.
But the cost to anyone will be hard to predict. The issue, Davis explains, is the difference between the year of purchase, the exchange rate, and flyaway cost versus the cost when training, spares and long-term sustainment and other issues that vary over time are included. If not for escalating threats in the region, like the introduction of the SA-20 surface-to-air missile, the IAF would have preferred to wait several years before ordering its first F-35s.
Nice thread scoots, don’t have nightmares.
OtakuYeah, the Afghan AF are interested in the F-35 (for ‘stealth’ COIN)……..according to LM.
OtakuYeah, the Afghan AF are interested in the F-35 (for ‘stealth’ COIN)……..according to LM.
OtakuI thing you guys have missed some fundamental points.
Firstly, it appears the IAF will be inducting some RuAF standard single-seat PAK-FAs i.e. same 5G engines, FCS, AESA radar, avionics, (weapons?), barring software/source-code differences. Not vanilla/monkey/downgraded versions.
These ‘unified/common’ versions are necessary to bring down production costs. Work on the IAF’s 2-seater version is NOT analogous to Su-27 & Su-30, more like F-22 & FB-22. The second seat and different dimensions of the wings/control surfaces are not bolt-on modifications, but clearly an attempt not to compromise the aircraft’s range and/or stealth.
Hence, Indian input will amount to considerable R&D input and manufacturing know-how- just because the starting point is the single seater, doesn’t detract from that in any way.
I’m sure Indian software engineering can only be of benefit to both versions.
The Director of NIIP said recently that the PAK-FA radar’s active array would form the basis of the Su-30MKI (‘blk.4’) upgrade. However, although I don’t think there’ll be ToT for the radar or 5G engine, I think there’ll be local assembly.
The substantial up-front payment is a means to get the flight-test programme rolling and possibly a downpayment for some single-seaters. It’s also a sign that costs are escalating more than projected/allocated.
I don’t think these details were suddenly sprung on the IAF/MoD the other week @ AeroIndia, these negotiations have been ongoing for over two years. More details will filter out when the specific contracts are signed later this year.
OtakuI thing you guys have missed some fundamental points.
Firstly, it appears the IAF will be inducting some RuAF standard single-seat PAK-FAs i.e. same 5G engines, FCS, AESA radar, avionics, (weapons?), barring software/source-code differences. Not vanilla/monkey/downgraded versions.
These ‘unified/common’ versions are necessary to bring down production costs. Work on the IAF’s 2-seater version is NOT analogous to Su-27 & Su-30, more like F-22 & FB-22. The second seat and different dimensions of the wings/control surfaces are not bolt-on modifications, but clearly an attempt not to compromise the aircraft’s range and/or stealth.
Hence, Indian input will amount to considerable R&D input and manufacturing know-how- just because the starting point is the single seater, doesn’t detract from that in any way.
I’m sure Indian software engineering can only be of benefit to both versions.
The Director of NIIP said recently that the PAK-FA radar’s active array would form the basis of the Su-30MKI (‘blk.4’) upgrade. However, although I don’t think there’ll be ToT for the radar or 5G engine, I think there’ll be local assembly.
The substantial up-front payment is a means to get the flight-test programme rolling and possibly a downpayment for some single-seaters. It’s also a sign that costs are escalating more than projected/allocated.
I don’t think these details were suddenly sprung on the IAF/MoD the other week @ AeroIndia, these negotiations have been ongoing for over two years. More details will filter out when the specific contracts are signed later this year.
OtakuYak-130 @ Akhtubinsk (video):
Sign In
