To chip in there on what Rocky just said, the war on communism was basically won at the fall of the soviet union, i think were down to like 6 or 7 communist goverments left in the whole world now, an epic success and achievement and a massive blow to pro communists, North Korea, Burma, China (in transition somewhat), Cuba, Vietnam are all that i can think of left. Just a shame for the people that still live under these appaling regimes.

Communism is one of the biggest social engineering, and a successful one indeed, you dont get this point do you that, where Communism is minority it is Capitalists (West) biggest friends, and where it is the majority, it is the biggest enemy.

To carry out the interest of their own, even till this day the West (anglo-saxon world order) uses Communism to foster its own interests in countries where they are in minorities. So I dont see both going away because they are sometimes made for each other whereas sometime enemies.

IN was interested in Goshawks IIRC quite long ago if I remember correctly, it approached BAE but they refused to sell it at the same package IAF is getting HAWKS, thus IN dropped the idea.

farooq, there are some AJT pics i believe, mockup pics have to search. hopefully I’m not mixing up AJT with IJT on the pics i’m talking about. From AI03 or 05…

Are you saying the Indian Goverment (and taxpayer) should fund the LCA. Regardless, of the outcome???? Please………:eek:

If taxpayers money were well utilised and proper funds were given, you would have to take back these words that your saying.

There are hundreds of examples of this within India 9including a lot in the defence industry itself) where proper money has translated into proper project execution.

Let me post some details i posted on kaveri in 2 posts http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1143764#post1143764 and http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1156972&highlight=kaveri#post1156972

Someone should put up the link to the previous thread, anyways I have already posted the details of kaveri here before from Respective MOD report.

And someone was asking about Algerian pilots being trained in India? Is it correct?

Kaveri engine gathers momentum
http://frontierindia.net/kaveri-engine-gathers-momentum/
Jul 29th, 2007 by FIDSNS | 0
In an exclusive to Frontier India (FIDSNS), Gas Turbine Research Engine (GTRE) has described its future plans with Kaveri rngine project. The Kaveri project has progressed significantly over last few years. The project has now been conceived on two different platforms: K9+ Program and the K 10 Program.

K9 + Program

This program has been conceptualized with a view to prove the concept of complete design and gain hand-on experience of aircraft engine integration and flight trials to cover a defined truncated flight envelope prior to the launch of production version of K10 Std. engine. This exercise would generate a great deal of confidence in the minds of entire scientific community of GTRE and associated work centers. The PDC for K9+ is June 2008. As compared to final Kaveri Engine, K9+ engine has more weight, slightly lower After Burner thrust as compared to the design intent. At the moment, GTRE has been able to achieve and demonstrate the required dry thrust at Bangalore condition consistently. The various prototypes of the engine are undergoing various engine level tests, safety related tests, component level tests, endurance tests which are mandatory before first flight of the K9 + engine with PV1 of LCA. The core engine (Kabini engine) has been planned to be sent to CIAM Russia for altitude tests by end Aug 2007. The official Altitude Test and Flying Test Bed for K9+ engines is planned for Nov 2007. All this will culminate in integrating the Kaveri K9 + engine with PV1 followed by first interim flight by June 2008.

K 10 program

This programme has been planned now to be progressed embedding Joint Venture (JV) partnership with one of the selected engine houses ie. either NPO Saturn, Russia or SNECMA, France. Presently, Technical Evaluation of the proposals are on-going. After completion of Technical Evaluation, Price Negotiation Committee Meeting is to be organized for selecting the JV partner. The engine which will be developed under Joint Partnership will be the engine for its fitment in the ‘LCA’.

K-10 programme is for the final production standard Kaveri engine. Compared to K9 + engine, this will have less weight and more reheat thrust along with certain other changes to meet the original design intent.

The Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine Project

Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine is a derivative of Aero version of Kaveri Engine. This derived engine will be used for Ship Propulsion. The technology demonstration for KMGT has already been completed and 1st phase of testing was also completed at user’s place i.e. Indian Navy at Naval Dockyard, Vishakhapatnam ND (V), where GTRE demonstrated the shaft power generation of 3.2 MW (limited power generation due to non-availability of power turbine blades of required material). However at GTRE test bed, the Kaveri Marine Gas Generator has already been tested generating power to the extent of 10.6 MW. This will be further ascertained during 2nd Phase of testing of Gas Generator along with Power Turbine (i.e. full KMGT) after the power turbine blades of required material are available in Aug 2007. The 2nd Phase of testing will be completed at ND (V) in Dec 2007.

Summary as per posted in BR,

1) GTRE is confident that K9+ can be as it is integrated into PV-1.

2) The expected thrust of kaveri engine is going to exceed the advertised thrust. But, the problem lies with the afterburner (as mentioned in the FIDSNS) article. Another issue is the blades metallurgy.The blades need to be changed faster than the normal.

3) The JV is going to look after only few modules for collaboration and to establish smooth manufacturing lines in the K10 standars, This was also mentioned in the MOD report.

and my second post,

1) GTRE is confident that K9+ can be as it is integrated into PV-1.

2) The expected thrust of kaveri engine is going to exceed the advertised thrust. But, the problem lies with the afterburner (as mentioned in the FIDSNS) article. Another issue is the blades metallurgy.The blades need to be changed faster than the normal.

3) The JV is going to look after only few modules for collaboration and to establish smooth manufacturing lines in the K10 standars, This was also mentioned in the MOD report.

Continuing from my previous kaveri post from here (expert posted above) some more details and latest news in oldest to latest order for you guys,

From The Hindu

Commenting on the long delayed Kaveri engine, which if ready could have solved the propulsion problem, Dr. Banerjee said that while it was operating on full design capacity on dry thrust (50 kilo Newton), it was only achieving 90 per cent aft burner thrust (80 kN). It was also 15 per cent overweight, an issue that “was killing it”. The Gas Turbine Research Establishment that is developing the Kaveri is still looking to find a partner who will bring in technology to build the hot end section (turbine and high pressure compression) of the Kaveri.

From Zeenews

Speaking on the occasion, T Mohan Rao, Director, Gas Turbine Research Establishment at Bangalore, outlined the ongoing work on the Kaveri engine that would power the LCA.

From Newindpress on ADA plans supersonic fighter trainer

Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) Director, T Mohana Rao, in his presentation said his scientists were struggling to reduce the weight of the Kaveri engine to 1,050 Kgs as required by ADA for the LCA Tejas.

Rao said of the nine engine prototypes, the first three weighed 1,432 Kgs, the fourth to eighth weighed 1,235 Kgs while the ninth weighed 1.101.1 Kgs.

On above article, note how they have almost reached the desired weight of kaveri in K9, it is the K9 standard which will fly in LCA first while it will be the K10 standard where help will be sought to further reduce the weight, and create other changes if need be.

I’m think better turbine casting technology will greately reduce the weight and will improve TET as well.

Contract signing in December on Kaveri again from newindpress
Good information on kaveri,

Air breathing engines and Aerospace Propulsion – Proceedings of NCABE 2004 – 05-07 November 2004: Organised by IIT Kanpur

This is an online book at books.google.com. Amazing content on Kaveri – a collection of various papers inlcuding info on Combusters, controls, compressors, design process, flow and heat transfer, manufacturing, advanced materials being developed for the Kaveri program, fatigue structure evaluations of Kaveri et al. A very comprehensive presentation of 601 pages.

Also has info on Scramjets.

Some pics on kaveri developement,

Lastly also note, how the consistent dates of december testing has been met by GRTE as per frontierindia reported. So hopefully things are going well in that front, if some fresh encounters has been encountered well, lets wait and see. The next 5 years is going to be very important for Indias future aeronautical industry.

Well Well guys here are some of my points,

1. I think i have posted in details on what is happening in the kaveri front before, so I dont really know why the hullabo is all about, plese follow up how kaveri move is being reported by frontierindia and it getting repeatedly validated, so far the datelines has been met on the new schedule, dont know what will happen next.

2. Regarding F414 powering LCA, what if it is nothing but a bunch of bull-****? Ravi sharma has included 2 tonne increase in weight of LCA, when GRTE is struggling to reduce their engine at a design goal of around 200 kg’s more to get the design intent, i dont see how LCA’s weight suddenly increases by 2 tonnes!

I say wait, wait before the right report comes out from right place, we have seen more than enough absolutely incorrect reporting by Ravi Sharma.

And if what Ravi sharma says is true, push the Tejas IOC by 5 years more. 😎

Starting threads based on these wild media speculations is laughable, questioning whats happening on kaveri front without doing a little wee bit searching is also quite funny.

Joey, MCA (if it is a true 5th gen machine) cannot be independent of PAK-FA project. Regardless of growing indian economy, India simply cannot afford to develop and operate two 5th gen fighters over next 20-30 years…only nation capable of doing so in the forseeble future is US of A, and that is precisely what she is going to do (F/22 and JSF). Having signed the contract for joint production of PAK-FA, MCA will have to be put on backburner and/or may be turned into a UCAV type of project to become operational beyond 2030. I know India is a big country which needs a big airforce. But all modern air forces are trying to reduce the number of operational aircrafts by increasing their lethality. Having squadrons of MKI, LCA, MMRCA, and PAK-FA where and how exactly would IAF fit MCA into service between 2020-30?

While you are correct regarding this 2 fifth gen project, I dont see why India might not operate two, PAKFA from mod report with service in numbers from 2020+ timeframe and around 2025 timeframe we will probably need a Jaguar/Mig27 replacement which is the MCA.

Regarding numbers, with MRCA I dont see how IAF is reducing the number of types it operates, and yes MCA reality or not depends on iaf and that will get clear in the next coming 5 years plan to come.

Have to admit Frontier India is doing such a excellent job, so far no information it has brought has been proven incorrect even look at the kaveri information…..here is another nice piece from them.

After the simulated test on a electronic target, here we go a live interception of the target a week later.

http://frontierindia.net/indian-endo-atmospheric-interception-test-successful/

Indian Endo-Atmospheric Interception test successful

Written on December 6, 2007 – 4:50 pm | by FIDSNS | At 11 AM on 6th December 2007 DRDO carried out the 2nd launch of a Single Stage Interceptor Missile against an incoming ballistic missile target of enemy represented by a modified Prithivi Missile.

The Endo-Atmospheric Interceptor intercepted the Missile at 15 km altitude exactly as designed at high supersonic speed. All the elements of Ballistic Missile Defence System viz., Long Range Tracking Radar, Multi-function Fire Control Radar, Mission Control Centre, Launch Control Centre, Mobile Launcher, Mobile and Multi-layer Communication System, Data links to Interceptor participated in the Mission. The Interceptor and all the Elements performed in a copybook fashion validating the design of the “Endo-Atmospheric” layer of BMD System. The launch was also seen through a video link at control room in DRDO Bhavan, Delhi.

http://frontierindia.net/temp/aad3.jpg

http://frontierindia.net/temp/aad2.jpg

Big pictures available up, courtesy FIDNS via Gopal.Suri @ BR.