I dont know which information to take it as correct, some posters previously mentioned that F16XL was cancelled to F15E due to issues relating to new production line and also budget while the performance of F16XL exceeded that of F16 and F15E.

Check this thread not so long ago,

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=74354&page=2&highlight=F16+versus+competitors

some posts there,

It was the Enhanced Tactical Fighter (ETF) competition to replace the F-111. The XL was a bit of an ad hoc design and was in need refinement. When the decision was made in 1984 Saint Louis’s line could more readily handle the ETF as F-15C/D production was winding down while Ft. Worth’s was a mess at the time with all the F-16 orders. That being said I still think the XL makes more sense than the extra chunky Vipers of today.

A article on F16 XL’s design,
http://www.aoe.vt.edu/~mason/Mason_f/ABMSThes.pdf

http://avitop.com/cs/forums/thread/1486.aspx

The XL is a cranked arrow delta winged f-16. This aircraft was built for a compition it lost to the f-15E in wich a strike aircraft was required. It lost not due to its performance, to the contrary, it was actualy superior in performance then the F-15E but mainly because Politics demanded MD kept its line running so that export Eagles could be sold. After this compatition was over the aircraft was bought by NASA in 1988 for resurch.

Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16XL ) states,

These changes resulted in a 25% improvement in maximum lift-to-drag ratio in supersonic flight and 11% in subsonic flight, and a plane that reportedly handled much smoother at high speeds and low altitudes. The enlargements increased fuel capacity by 82%. The F-16XL could carry twice the ordnance of the F-16 and deliver it 40% further. The enlarged wing allowed a total of 27 hardpoints on the plane:

Agreed, the Indian taxpayer is being misled but taxpayers are always misled- especially on defence procurement issues/costs, even blatant (public money) bribes hardly cause ripples anymore.
However, people seem to be overlooking some important points.

Firstly, the death of the MCA is at least partially due to technical reasons in that that Indian industry is simply not capable of completing such a programme in a realistic time frame, arguments such as ‘so what if it’s inferior to PAK-FA/F-22? so long as it benefits Indian aerospace’ are militarily facile.

Secondly, with Russian govt. coffers bursting at the seams, Indian money (though welcome) is no longer relevant. In fact, in at least the last 12 months it has been the Indian govt/MOD that has been clamouring for T-50 involvement. It’s laughable that the Indian press is touting this as the ‘Indo-Russian FGFA JV”- though the 50/50 JV will be the MKI-ising of PAK-FA and has nothing to do with RuAF’s variant, as already eloquently explained by Abhimanyu, and clearly defined by M. Pogosyan a month ago.

In the grand scheme of things, if MKI-ising/license production of PAK-FA is not worth $5billion then those detractors should take a serious look at contemprorary programme costs and not some ill-conceived “CBA doin’ Mach 5 over one’s head”.

PM Manmohan Singh arrives in Moscow today, and ITAR-TASS reports an Indo-Russian technical & management team will formally ink the work-share and investment contracts between Nov.12-14. So things will be allot clearer shortly.

Incorrect analysis, and I think I have that the project MCA is independent of PAKFA, but now what needs to be seen is IAF commitment to it.

I think I have told you before, that MCA developement is must for India to implement many unimplemented technologies developed in the previous decade.

MCA is dependent entirely now on user and MOD.

abhimanyu, only one request first LET IT fly in 2009, then we will easily come to know about the Indian contribution into it.

Regardless money could have been better spend, and I would be REALLY pissed if MOD spends 5bn$ behind PAKFA while spends 500 million dollars for MCA developement, I HOPE they will sanction atleast half that amount which Ada has asked for.

Curious spot on, even if base design done there are LOTs of works left IMHO, regarding UCAV, I dont think India should work on it as of now without MCA.

Single engined PAKFA for India and double engined for Russia? I highly doubt it.

Oh, I have no doubt the PAK-FA if and when it materializes will be better than a F-117,, at least I hope so for Russia’s and India’s sakes. I was just alluding to the fact that the US has spent countless $billions in pioneering stealth and have such a big head start. One expert in a TV documentary estimates that the US has spent more on stealth than it did to put a man on the moon. So PAK-FA can fly in maybe a decade or so, it will be a 1st gen product competing against stealth tech that is several generations ahead.. it seems that PAK-FA or other similar stealth platforms are doomed to play catch-up.. no knock on Russian aviation designers.. its just they seem to have a very short stack in a poker game against someone who holds a mountain of chips.. the question is how long can they stay in the game?:D

mabie, Its not about spending, the US can spend billions does not means one other country have to spend the same, You need to understand country which first ‘created’ the Crystal Blade technology is the one who would have spent a LOT in the respective R&D, while the countries later following suit need not spent the same amount to get the job done.

Speculations about the generation of stealth vis-a-vis American counterparts aside, In a generalised form “correct me if I’m wrong”

F117 – Aerodynamical stealthiness.
B2 – Propulsion stealth plus the above.
F22 – Stealth in all aspects, mostly six, viz IR, Noise, Contrail, Aerodynamics , Materials etc.

HOWEVER, to me YF-23 seemed stealthier than F22, regardlessIt is yet to be seen how the Indo-Russian PAKFA shapes up viz the above, developing unidisciplinary systems is to me not going to be too much challenging rather than integrating and making a all encopassing bird having all these systems working in tandem perfectly, thats definitely is going to be a challenge.

I’m also wondering if Russians are developing any good engines with T/W ratio of over 10:1.

Regarding the bolded part, you have essentially retaliated what you have said before, but I’m sticking with what I said; that generation of stealthiness being first or second vis-a-vis their american counterparts is not going to be determined just because it is Indo-Russian first effort to develope a stealth jet, regarding the catch-up part, well why not; I dont expect the US to sit idle for a decade and half. They have the money, they are leading for now; It will be infact surprising if they does not keeps the lead going.

Now it was delayed again to 2012.
This fighter seem to be piperdream which won’t fly ever?!:D :diablo:

franc, All this talk of PAKFA to fly in 2009 was highly doubtful to me right from start, Simply put unless the project reaches a mature stage and is made public about some of its details it is simply impossible to make out whats happening in the front, We dont even know if the aerodynamic design has been freeezed or not, with Indian participation now chipped in its work share etc etc.

I think as one MOD report mentions, it might take 2020 for PAKFA to completely mature, If it really flies in 2012, and if 2015 is the induction phase, its great but I’d be skeptical and push the induction phase a bit further.

So yes if it flies in 2012, 2015~2018 possible squadron service and in numbers around 2020.

a funny little side note that I noted on the map you just showed, Wanshan..a tribute to India’s secularism..:)
a Muslim graveyard (kabrastan) right next to a Jewish cemetary and just a little further up, a Hindu crematorium..

errm People may disagree if that is what Nehruvian Secularism is all about (As In the context of India) , so it will be better if such points are avoided as we obviously cannot talk on about it here, nothing up personal; entirely my opinion.

http://frontierindia.net/india-designed-warship-technologies-to-boost-indian-navy-preparedness/

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=32287

Hello folks, haven’t posted here since 21st June. Does SOC still hang around here? If so, I have a reply for him to ponder upon 😀

Limited & Superficial Comparison of Air Assets of the PAF & IAF

when you wrote specifically signifying the aspect that and I quote,

The Bars radar has Jet Engine Modulation (JEM) technology, allowing for a target to be identified at range by simply analyzing the radar returns from the target’s engine compressor face.

Isnt the JEM is a de-facto or quite common in almost all modern airborne radars and even not-so modern ones? and If that is the case, you signified it thinking that this must be something really special (read : JEM), in that case….

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong.

Why is it “military” if Iran’s police want to buy and use Indian motorcycles?They can buy it from the open market,as can civilians in Iran.

I was being rhetorical, dont take everything at literally face value mate, yes ofcourse bikes = not mil stuffs, I know that. Anyways, I dont think India-Iran relation is same as India-Syria one.

Nick,

I can understand the need for numbers but what eludes me is the need for another platform and that too when it has to be built bottom up and then operationalized. In between the likes of MKI,MRCA,LCA,PAK-FA and Mig-29K which capability could not be had without inducting MCA? If it’s an excercise in development then there is alot of opportunity in further developing these platforms and building UCAVs the next future platform.

MCA is going to be a lifeline for Indian Aviation’s future else I think we will be stuck just like we were around after completion of Marut. We all know the political price that HF-73/72 etc etc paid.

Work on MCA has begun that is for sure, but As nick says IAF’s commitment to it can only be seen after the LCA. There are many technologies which has been developed on course of LCA which are going to be implemented etc etc.

It might just reach Engineering Developement status (if not FSED), and be dumped if IAF or MOD thinks so, like which was done incase of completely new LUH (light Utility Helicopter) design, a model of which was shown in Aero India 2005, instead Bell 207’s/Eurocopter were opted for.

Its all speculations as of now, and seriously speaking looking at timelines unless MRCA is really accelerated and fast decisions are made , I’m keeping my hopes out of watching MCA fly anytime soon, Even if it is a decade it is too much time for me to wait. 😮