There were also 36 Bulgarian MiG’s modified for ground attack. The info is little and the only picture i have is in low resolution(here). If i have the time i will try to go to the airfield myself to take photos. The pilon is outside the fuel tank, i can’t see it, but the person that take the picture said that they are visible.
What kind of stealthy drone is it? 0.07 is rather an RCS of a small missile.
This one
The drone is based on the missile of the S-125 system.
Wrong.
First watch few episodes and then make your point. There is just too many mistakes. For example MiG-23ML is twin-engined and is portrayed by F-111 model. And the whole purpose of the series is to show good vs bad guys battles.
Even if the F-35 and F-22 ONLY have a .07m^2 RCS(which I don’t believe to be the case)
I didn’t say that. It’s just that S-300 fired in exercise at low RCS targets, and one of the drones was intercepted at 60km in heavy jamming enviorement and the drone RCS is 0.07m2. Does that prove that it can fire at F-22 at 60km? No. But it have more weight than any speculation what F-22 can do against such a threat.
I was using your numbers- what’s the problem?
Maybe because you stated this: “0.1m^2 – 61.75nm” which is around twice lower than the actual. And i used 250 figure to simplify the calc.
No- it doesn’t work that way. Even using your figures though
Math was not your strong subject in school, right?
For 10 fold decrease in RCS we have halved detection range. Let’s make some simple calcs.
250nm against 2m2
125nm against 0.2m2
62.5nm against 0.02m2
So my statement is right.
And what you wrote is just your assumptions. It is fact that S-300PM engaged 0.07m2 target at 60km. The only thing that you can claim now is that F-22 have all round marble sized RCS, which will be nonsense.
came across this piece of ‘Historia’ just today – “Crazy Egyptian pilot” doing a split S..
Alone against 11 MiG’s hungry for blood…..
The series have some nice computer graphic but are for morons.
Comparing jammed Vostok-E detection ranges to unjammed Nebo-SVU detection ranges.
And the next question is what do you mean by jammed? There are quite a lot different ways to “jam” an radar and the other question is how would the radars of the attacker perform in heavy jamming environment? I remember that in one soviet exercise the end result was “we jammed that radar but we are blind too”.
If you think those systems have the mobility to be survivable, then I’m really not sure what to tell you. Secondly did you pay attention- for every 10 fold decrease in RCS, there’s halving of range. Which means that against a 1m^2 target, the detection range would be ~123.5nm.
.1m^2 – 61.75nm
.01m^2 – 30.375nm
.001m^2- 15.18+nm
.0001m^2- 7+nm
a detection range of 247 nm (457 km) against a 2 m
Your calculations are wrong. Ten fold decrease means 123.5 against 0.2m^2 target and 61 against 0.02….. Trying to cheat?
a few simple bursts in the atmosphere will shut down most of the Russian defense net works
You know, the REDS made some trials in the past to test such scenario. Can you guess the result?
The S-300 isn’t static, but it isn’t designed to move all the time either.
My point was that in layered defence that is one huge network, mobility is great advantage. There can be a lot of “silent” units that are aware of the situation and can decide when to fire and will be gone in 10-20 minutes. I remember that in trials in Ashluk, S-300PM crews managed to get the whole unit in move in that time. Of course this is the case if mast assembly like 40V6M/40V6MD is not used. And about the mobility, i have some experience with civilian relative of the MAZ chassis, and i can tell you that the only thing that can stop it is deep swamp. Here is short quote from SOC’s blog(it was from The S-300 SAM System, Nevskiy Bastion book if i’m not mistaken):
“The firing exercise conducted for Colonel-General Khyupenen was to involve the deployment of a battery to a preselected firing location. The location was pre-selected so that the maximum amount of telemetry data on the test could be gathered. This did not sit well with Colonel-General Khyupenen, who viewed the use of a pre-selected launch site as an inaccurate method of gauging the system’s deployability. As it would turn out, an unexpected mishap ended up providing onlookers with a far more accurate demonstration. As the SAM battery was deploying to the launch site, the column of vehicles came to an unscheduled halt. The engine on one of the MAZ-543 vehicles had developed a mechanical problem and would not re-start. Seizing the opportunity, senior Almaz engineer Vyacheslav Volkov ordered the battery to deploy where it was. Geodesic tie-in was rapidly accomplished, and the target drone which had been fired was intercepted with a single missile. Deployment of the SAM battery and geodesic tie-in took 5 minutes, validating the mobility of the S-300PS.”
Oh don’t try to use logic and facts here. As you saw there is the though that system like S-300 is static, radiating and “alone” target, blind and waiting to be hit by the wonder weapon SDB.
It was. In the former GDR in 1990….
No it wasn’t. You don’t get the point. The statement is that Bagdad was the most defended city, so no point comparing with GDR or WP country. Compare Bagdad with the armament and capability of 1544 Air-defence regiment in USSR for example. Batery S-300V and Buk-1. One such regiment is more of a threat that the whole air-defence of Iraq in 1991.
The main problem of smart weapons is still to find a target, when the opponent is informed about the shortcomings of that. Just in exercises such targets are to find in a confined area at a given time and not on the move in a dense country-side or temporary hidden in a barn or within civilan truck traffic f.e..
True. It seem that some people think that finding a mobile and not constantly radiating target is easy task. Tomahawks and SDB flying everywhere and blowing everything to pieces. What a fantasy universe.
Just on a note The U.S. Now has enough missile defenses to render the few SUB launched ICBMs Irrelevant.
What Sub’s? ICBM’s launched from where?
Just out of interest, what do you think it is if it isn’t an aircraft?
As Mr Creosote said i meant aeroplane. Mistakes like this shows that english is my second language.
COIN suggests more subtle low-speed, loitering capability, good look out/spotting position, and well armed with more traditional air to ground weapons.
Yup. Mi-24
Yeah Bagdad air-defence was modern. What a joke. I wonder in that case what was Moscow defence in 1991? And who cares that F-22 will detect the radar of the S-300/400. These systems work in network, so there is great chance that there will close one that is not emmiting. How much time will any plane have to respond to a missile flying at him at 2km/s? Firing SDB in anger? Great, that is why there is system like Tor and Tunguska. There is no perfect weapon and even that S-300PM* is not wonder weapon, it’s a very difficult target, that was made to be used against VLO targets in heavy jamming conditions. I wonder why in the west military there is great respect for the system, but here the fanboys think that it’s easy meat.
Mi-24 and i don’t care that it’s not aircraft.
jessmo24 try to chill out and breathe. In this forum there were always fanboys and their claims, so what you post is nothing new. I see that you have some bias against “the reds” and you are good at comparing oranges to apples. The fact is that right now there are two nations that can try to resist the US airpower and cause damage, but if any of the two nations is attacked, there will be nuclear exchange. So US airpower is all-mighty and can leven any country in the world. Can we move on now?