JSRAre you saying that India is buying PAK-FA because it has high performance AESA and Rafale does not have high performance AESA? I do not think that is possible. India could have chosen a US aircraft for MMRCA if AESA radar performance was SO important.
Thats the exact reason for not chosing US aircraft as India will be getting high performance AESA for PAK-FA. for Rafale it can settle for less even with underpowered engines.
I don’t think you know much about the short/medium range narrow body aviation market, do you?
I perfectly understand the market. A320 will sell as long EU banking system is working and alternative assembly lines are not in production. It has practically nothing do with technological level.
Engines: Rafale may get a boost in thrust if a customer wants it. Same for Typhoon. Typhoon may also get thrust vectoring if a customer wants it. The limitation is not lack of technological knowledge and ability. The limitation is what the customer wants to buy.
AESA: Rafale is in the process of getting AESA. Typhoon is getting it soon. Both Rafale & EF will retire with very different radar to the radar first installed.
Nothing is certified. and you dont even know how much EF weight will increase TVC agility will create its own stress on airframe.
EF/Rafale may retire with different radar but that will be small upgrade on small number of airframes.
Rafale AESA is at best 40% improvement over PESA. 40% dont have practical significance against low rcs targets like incoming AAMs or cruise missiles.
JSROH WOW! I have tears rolling down my face with what you have written there JSR! It is the funniest fantasy I have ever laid my eyes on! You really believe that stuff don’t you…god I haven’t had this much fun reading such crazy fantasies since Star49 was on this forum:D:D:D
The IL476 is a development of the rather elderly IL76, it presents no particular stunning new developments and is entirely conventional. That you are comparing it to the A380 is just a bit amusing. Europe can no longer launch complex new development projects?…darn the A350 must be all in my mind then. A320NEO, A320 replacement and multiple different helicopter projects so a new intercontinental transport or attack helicopter would present little to no problems. Soyuz is being used to launch some of the Galileo constellation on a commercial basis, that doesn’t mean Europe couldn’t use alternative launch platforms to do it. Anyway Galileo is a civilian network and EU armed forces use GPS. Also I suggest you don’t throw stones in a glass house as GLOSNAS has hardly been a huge success. No new fighters? No new high performance AESA? New fighters will be a long way down the line and high performance AESA radar have been tested. Any suggestion otherwise is purely in your mind…
Also what is your fascination with European semiconductor production? Facilities open and facilities close…that is normal business! Its certainly larger and more sophisticated then anything Russia gets up to. There is no threat reported anywhere of a collapse or a draining of skills in that sector anytime soon…again one of your fantasies.
Wise not to go into your strange obsession with rare metal production, the EU can get what it needs commercially with little to no hassle.
Anyhow please do continue with your fantasy it does give us all some enjoyment…welcome back Star49!;)
I dont know why even bother to reply. present little problem. how many decades it took for A400M project. and that is mediocre product at best. there wont be a 10 ton Antenna on top of it any time soon.
F-16E is development of F-16A. but do you know it took 30 years and 4000 F-16 to reach to that stage. Effort much greater than this one is involved in IL-476 project. once you consider flight cycle, internal load, internal fuel increase without much increase in empty weight. F-16E weight did increase by 60%. You cannot make basic facts right.
EU based cellular and communication firms. how fast they are collapsing. Do you think the fabs that are remaining can survive another 10 years untill 2020?. high performance AESA. India wouldnot be buying 5G fighter if there was such thing in EU. EU is forced to use Soyuz because it does not have money due to cost overurn in satellites. A350 is not new tech. it is using the same old composite manufacturing that perfected by Japanese two decades ago. MS21 is using new composite manufacturing not require big autoclaves.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/paris-irkut-tests-new-wingbox-for-ms-21-358526/
you would be still be improving the same A320 30 years from now. As is said before both Rafale & EF will practically retire with same engines and radar. only few will be upgraded some thing new.
JSRSaudi – only on paper. In reality they don’t use most of their aircraft and most of them rot away because they’re not properly maintained. They also rely heavily on foreigners to fly their aircraft as well as random princes.
India – you could argue they are already more powerful than a majority of EU air forces. Very few have their own AWACS or heavy lift transport abilities, and only two have a full fledged aircraft carrier.
India is already more powerfull than all EU airforce. They have gigantic AESA radar on AWACS. and 200 heavy strike fighters. along with access to military grade Glonass signal. They can lunch very effective airstrikes at much further distance than EU airforce can manage. Saudi can always hire foreign skilled labor. They may not be fully effective but alteast they are adding new planes at much greater rate than any EU airforce.
Kurds are only 25 percent of the population and turkey has plans to move them into iraq and syria. Turkey is buying lots of stuff.. awacs, 5th gen aircraft, new trainers, etc. They are an N11 country.
Western Turkey has same birth rates as Western EU. Turkey need Kurd more than Kurd need Turkey. They have alot of programes going but every thing is too slow to implement and imported. Once you import stuff your always in need of hard currency to maintain them. i am not going into political pressures of not using them at proper time.
JSRAnd let me guess JSR, once the US and European economies go down the pan as you are predicting the mighty Russia will stride upon the earth crushing all before it?!:rolleyes:
First i havent made such prediction. and even if it becomes true decline of West will terrify the Arab ruling elite and that means higher Oil price for the rest of the world.
Polish F16 are fairly new and if they want something beyond AMRAAM in the future then I’m sure something can be worked out. With an MLU including a new AESA radar those late Block F16 should offer sterling long term service.
Those F-16 engines, material and radar tech is Mid 1990s. and they will remain the same untill 2020. Unless you have information that Poland is upgrading them before 2020.
Turkey might well be a dysfunctional country in many respects but it is in no risk of an Islamic style rebellion, its military is secular in nature and won’t stand for that. Turkey is going through an economic boom at the moment due to its geographic location next to Europe and its cheap products. Finally Turkey is a regional Super Power when it comes to its armed forces with a very impressive re-equipment program over the next couple of decades. They even have plans for an indigenous stealth fighter.
Turkey is not going through economic boom rather hand outs boom
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/139300/turkish-pm-meets-mashaal-in-surprise-visit-.html
To maintain those hand outs it has to completely change its social make up Turkish military is completely marginalized. Turkey choice is either Arab funded parties or Greek style meltdown.
I wouldn’t write of the economies of Germany, France or the UK quite yet as well. There will be new fighters in the future when the procurement cycles require it. As for:
There will not be new fighters before 2030. Rafale production is now down 8 to 10 aircraft per year. Gripen is in same shape. EF is built by committee. No individual country has the required knowledge to built it alone.
Get Real! Only in your wildest fantasies! I know some here don’t like me mentioning it but Russia’s industrial aerospace sector as a whole is tiny in comparison to Europe. To suggest that the entire European capacity to design and develop complex weapons is going to evaporate is almost comical.
EU aerospace is like assembling Iphones by Foxconn from parts spread around the world. EU can recycle old stuff in mass quantities like A320. but it can no longer launch new complex unique capabilies. The scientific power behind IL-476 is on level of A380. It takes alot of deep structural knowledge to keep MTOW at 200 tons that can lift 60 and still have long flight cycle time. There will be no 5G fighers in EU. There will be no mass produced high performance AESA radar in EU. (key word is high performance).There will be no intercontinental transport. No new heavy lift transport and attack chooper. Most of fabs for seminconductors will be closed down. and even those remaining will lose ability for specialized military products. even with Soyuz lunch vehicle Galileo only can be completed in 2019. EU will always need external help. EU simply dont have any plans for military constellation on this scale.
http://www.wespeaknews.com/world/russia-to-launch-100-military-satellites-29877.html
Most of EU Fighter Aviation productions have significant US based components like Hexcel, Spirit, GE, Rockwell etc. Next in line will be Russia and China. Energy/Labor costs are lower in US/Russia/China. I am not going into industrial & rare earth metals that are available to large area countries.
At most EU will competing with tiny Israel in building UAV. and that only after 2020. That is the level of new knowledge development.
JSRSo will most NATO partner airforces be thoroughly obsolete by 2030?
I will say almost all of NATO barring US will be obsolete by 2020 relative peer competitors. India/Saudi will have more powerfull airforce than all of EU members.
I highly doubt Polish F-16 will get radar upgrade for proper exploiting Meteor class missile in 2020.
Very tiny fraction of EU based EF/Rafale/Gripen will have AESA/Meteor combo.
Turkish procurement is extremely slow and dysfunctional. and country will be taken over by islamist/kurd majority.
There will be complete lack of modern full size AWACS/JSTAR, new satellite network.
very small effort of couple of hundreds million dollars towards UCAV at best.
Above all the industrial capacity in EU to design and manufacture complex weopons will completely evaporate.
JSF future will depend on Natural gas fracking. if the wells become dry (less profitable) in less than 10 years. there will no competitive energy for US economy. so they will have to cut down in big way.
JSRIs there any reason to think that a UAV with supersonic capability, excellent loitering and all aspect stealth (low RCS) as well as visual and acoustic signature management, is not possible by 2030?
As to G loading I would expect that to drastically exceed 9G.
greater than 9G? what about weight increase to make it structurally sound.
UAV dont have cannon and i have doubt about UAV low altitude performance like going supersonic at tree height.
JSROh no. Nice big fat easy targets, all lined up like that, with the pilots having to concentrate on not crashing into each other.
watch it after 7 minute. Only 3 heli hits after month long bombardment in two compaigns despite flying low. this is pretty bold considering the mountainous terrain against latest manpads of that time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX56h7dStqw&feature=related
so intense is the bombing they need prepared packaged meals from saudi.
I would think Su-34 with its giant SAR radar from higher altitudes survellence and these chopper low to ground is ideal combination.
JSRThere is list of cooperative projects but in terms of dollar value this one is biggest one. and Russian i think deliberatly publicized this fact to Emarati newspaper. Design is too abstract things for them to understand. just tell them things in tons and kilos.
http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/industry-insights/aviation/russias-aircraft-makers-spread-their-wings#page2
“In the last few years, we’ve signed a lot of contracts – most of which were for titanium products and newly built titanium alloy,” said Rostechnologii’s director general, Sergey Chemezov, as he watched Boeing’s 787 Dreamliner do its aerial display.“The plane that you and I just saw consists of about 20 tonnes of titanium products, all of which were made in Russia.”
[email]dblack@thenational.ae[/email]
JSRThe Iraq war started with F-117, undetectable by radar, invading Iraq airspace to take down such centralised radar stations and other key installations.
Irak AWACS were created by French and so does various systems of Radar network. There is high probability that all of them were compromised before the war.
http://www.ausairpower.net/Analysis-ODS-EW.html
The Iraqi IADS was a composite system which integrated European and Soviet search and acquisition radars, and a range of Soviet and European SAM and AAA systems, all tied together with a French built Kari C3 (Command/Control/Communications) network.
JSRYep, it is a modified cockpit somewhat similar to what we saw in MiG-31M.
I am still looking for a better photo, but this is as close as I got.
We know there is 1 display in the cockpit, and 3 in the WSOs seat.http://pics.livejournal.com/igor113/pic/0044pk7q
Detection of fighter sized target @ 320km, and tracking @ 280km. Not bad 😉 .
Actually those figures are quite old from MIG-31M programe. I would estimate that MIG-31BM should provide greater air to air performance than Su-35. but there is no point in advertizing it.
AirFleet, 2002
Yuri Bely, Director, NIIP
Vladimir Zagorodny, Chief Designer, chief of a division, NIIPIn 1981, the Zaslon fire control system-equipped MiG-31 was fielded with the
interceptor fleet of the Air Defence Force. Even today – over 20 years
since – we cannot but recognise the novelty and courage of the technical
solution embodied in it both in terms of hardware and software.Further upgrade of the system ensured a hefty increase in the lock-on and
engagement ranges totalling over 300 km and upwards of 240 km respectively. The radar proved capable of tracking 24 targets at a time. “This is our mini-AWACS,” its developers would joke proudly. They were quite entitled to be proud
JSRWhat are the MDS and Loss values for both systems? After all to double range by power alone, you need a signal 16 times more powerful, not just 3 times.
You can’t compare an active low band radar to a passive system based on those numbers. One will only ever have the lowest frontal RCS of an aircraft or missile pointing at it while the other will get fleeting glimpses of the extremely large RCS aspects of the subjects.
Something that gets me with these passive systems is that they need to be spread out to effectively detect targets. As part of the IADS they still need to communicate with the other nodes, so they are not entirely passive.
I merely pointing the fact that there is continouse improvement in anti-stealth technologies. Even with same power 50% more detection range is possible. that is more than 10 year old tech. now 100kw is coming.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/54225878/7/SURVEILLANCE-RADARS
Nebo-UE has no analogues in the world. If compared with the Martello 743D radar, theNebo-UE’s most close and best foreign-madecounterpart, the Nebo-UE radar features1.5-times greater maximum detection range and altitude, at similar power consumption and detection accuracy.
Stealth aircraft takes long time to operationalize (R&D money is spread over many years) and very long time for lead items to manufacture. so it is kind a expensive to maintain industrial supply chain. it is the most expensive way to maintain airsuperiority.
JSRThere is some changes of MIG-31BM cockpit that it requires new simulator.
http://www.dinamika-avia.com/en/mcenter/news/index.php?cnews_news_id=1826
http://www.dinamika-avia.com/en/mcenter
/news/index.php?cnews_news_id=1784
CSTS Dinamika develops a new training complex for the MiG-31
JSRGo google it for yourself – not like its hard to find!
there is no information of F-14 with internal fuel and AAM flight profile. F-14 lacks CFT. so it will always need tradeoff.
F-15E with 17tons empty require 16.2tons of fuel for 3800km range. I doubt F-14 can match it.
Errrr – wrong answer.
AESA radar sets are considerably lighter than the old mechanical equivalents.
AESA require redesign fuselage.
Adding more heavier engines along with AESA and mulitrole will make F-14 even heavier than F-111.
20ton empty weight with 28000lbs thrust engines. not entirely suitable for its radar size. based on MTOW. maximum internal+external load is 13.5tons. which is less than F-18E.
http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-specification.htm
JSRSince LM has developed its own passive bistatic radar solution, I think they not only know a thing or two about its true capabilities, but also how to defeat it and how the F-35 will fare against it.
http://servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/~gbpprorg/mil/radar/sentry.pdf
LM is not in specialized Radar business but more like low cost effort. and i dont think iit is VHF AESA radar.
LM system is 10kw with 220km range against 10sqm targets.
Nebo is 30kw. 1sqm at 370km at medium altitude.
Just by specifiction newer systems are 10 times better and that is 5 year old tech.
JSRNo it doesn’t.
Its range, speed:range and payload:range are all more than adequate for its primary job – guard the fleet.
Indeed, its range, speed:range and payload:range are all far superior than its supposed ‘replacements’.
You can argue WVR maneuverability – however, if the USAF and USN are going to stack the deck toward BVR with F-35 (and to a much lesser extent with F-22), then why does the F-14 not fit in?
What kind of range with internal fuel & AAM. and it certainly lacks electronic scanning radar. which will add considerable weight to already overweight fighter. Its replacement is smaller and lighter aircraft. so more quantity can be carried.
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