JSRIt’s fair to say that the MiG-29K is not without issues.. MIG has been out of business for two decades, much of the bird is still relatively unproven.. but generally, the numbers are not significantly different from what we have seen elsewhere..
MIG out of business for two decades? under MIG leadership it still producing more aviation products and upgrades than Saab and Dassualt combined. where do you think that JF17 engine is produced? and all those MIG-29 maintained from Syria to Iran. and all those MIG-29K and rest of upgrades of MIG31. MIG35 trails are starting soon. I have no doubt it is more advanced and capable than Gripen NG and Rafale.
http://www.ibtimes.co.in/russian-navy-soon-get-new-drones-combat-aircraft-helicopters-710996
Russian Navy is set to receive MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB fighter jets in 2017-2020. Both these aircraft are currently being operated by India as well and are known to provide fleet air defence and surface attack capabilities.
JSRI hope dearly this peace track started by Putin is successful
It would be great to have Putin shove a corncob so far up Obama’s **** he will be chewing on it for the rest of his life.
Peace is not in Russia interest rather peace talks to reload new systems and train new forces. If Putin really wanted to humiliate Obama it would start war with Israel. than whole maintream media and US Congress will be punching Obama to lead from the front not behind.
JSRTR1 is getting mixed up between aircraft that have low availability due to low funding and those which have poor mechanical servicability.
So india with budget smaller than France can maintain airforce and Navy 3 times the size based on imported parts. Talk some logic.
JSRI could certainly believe $123 million each, and even less than that. I don’t doubt that Russian fighters are cheaper than the Western competitors, they would have to be given Russia’s predominantly 3rd-world customer base. What they aren’t is one half or one third the cost of the cheapest Western fighters.
Nobody can build a modern fighter for less than half the cost of an F-16 or Gripen, and if somebody could it wouldn’t be Russia. (and it wouldn’t be a heavy-weight twin engined design)
A little commons sense should tell people that, but then common sense isn’t evenly distributed it seems…
Ruaf is adding 6 times more fighter per year than IAF and they are far modern and diverse in capabilities. It’s understandable that F16 will be several times more expensive than Su-30SM as Su30SM is majority built in Siberia where there is no population, turnover and cost pressure like Texas.
JSRThat’s nice but I am not living in a war zone..
It does not matter. SUVs like Landcruiser and Gaz Tigr has very high RTI index so the suspension don’t get deformed over curbs and potholes that enable it long life tires plus high resale. Germanic vehicles will bankrupt a country. Not even Middleastern Police is using them in mass quantities as they not reliable.. Than add Ambulance and cargo truckd based on Germanic tech. Let see how many Germanic vehicles and tanks Turkey use in syria. They are lucky that SAA and Ruaf is not blasting them. Lufthansa Technik and Turkish Technic are carbon copy.
JSRThat is not an explanation.. and BTW, I surely would not buy a Russian car, even if it was sold for 1/3rd the price of an BMW..
..
BMW are for rent not buy. they cant do rough and tough performance and certainly very expensive maintaince. that’s why all this Middleast only Russian or Japanese light weight vehicles in war zone.
JSRTurkey is getting help from Ruaf. Andraxx big talk should end now about TAF.
http://www.kuna.net.kw/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=2583978&language=en
Turkey confirms killing of 12 IS militants in Russian airstrikes
JSRJust so we are clear, you are saying that India is not producing Su-30MKIs at roughly $75 million apiece?
I am well aware of the extremely low prices quoted in the media for Russian fighters, but as I already explained, these numbers do not represent apples to apples comparisons with Western designs. It would be as if Russia announced tomorrow that it was building a car competitive with the latest BMW, but planned to sell them at 1/3rd the price. Any reasonable person (which is obviously where I have gone wrong in trying to explain this to you…) would recognize that that is impossible.
Cheaper labor, etc, might allow a developing world economy like Russia to produce a finished product slightly cheaper, but cheap labor can only do so much on a high tech product where labor is the minority of the total cost.
Russia is utterly uncompetitive as a manufacturer but you expect us to believe they are producing fighter jets for a third of the cost of the rest of the world. Engage your brain…
what MIT knows about Russian exports?
Ruaf/RuNavy got closed to 100 Su-30SM in past 4 year alone that are more advanced than India MKI? how many MKI India built without Russian engines and parts in past 4 years?. you have no understanding of real world.
JSRNo, believing those numbers would require a level of suspension of disbelief similar to that required for an action movie…
Russia is wholly uncompetitive as a manufacturer and while the collapse of the Ruble helps some it isn’t going to come close to allowing them to sell a heavy weight twin engined fighter for less than half the cost of an F-16 or Gripen. Seriously, use your head for once.
If Russia were able to achieve such results in a high-tech industry they are wasting their time building fighter jets.
Edit:
Russia highly competive in high tech manufacturing for Submarines to full Nuclear fuel cycle to Oil/Gas industry without any foregin input. Russia is the largest producer of Tanks and armoured vehicles. Only Russia developed new fracking method for colder regions. they are concentrating labor on things what are important to them not what is important in Vietnam or Korea.
Boeing and others are now increasing high grade titanium purchase.
http://russianconstruction.com/news-1/25956-boeing-and-vsmpo-avisma-open-new-production-site-in-russian-sez.html
Boeing and VSMPO-Avisma open new production site in Russian SEZ
effective R&D.
http://www.clinicalleader.com/doc/the-state-of-clinical-trials-in-russia-0001
Russia was chosen as a clinical trial location for a large number of new pharmaceuticals. The Center for Drug Evaluation and Research (CDER) of the FDA approved 25 new drugs during Q2 2014 – 10 of them were (or are being) studied in clinical trials conducted in Russia
For example India, hardly a high-cost producer, is building the latest order of Su-30MKIs at ~$75 million per unit. Do you honestly think Russia can produce an Su-35 for less than a third of the cost of what India can produce an Su-30MKI for? Think…
India as example? first India is not a manufacturing country due to its dysfunctional government (aka lack of e government) energy, water,mining, housing density, transport and education system. these are the inputs for manufacturing. and the competitive people they produce work in Software industry. I believe the CEO or senior executives of Microsoft and Google etc are from India.
Russia software and E-government system is not dependend on Indians/Chinese.
when you have dependency on Chinese you cant strong action.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/sean-spicer-questions-u-s-response-to-russian-hacking/
Trump aide Sean Spicer questions U.S. response to Russian hacking
China took over a million records, sensitive data of people like me who had worked in the government at any time,” Spicer said. “Not one thing happened.”
After this phone call other pipeline filled up with gas.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-ukraine-gas-idUSKBN1392B9
Putin tells Merkel gas piped to EU could be siphoned off in Ukraine
US cant take strong action in Middleast as weak countries like India/Japan or EU who are critical to US depend on them. Only Russia alone can bomb Middleast in way that no other country can bomb them. that is the condition for alliance with Trump.
JSREven the Aviation Week numbers aren’t plausible as an apples to apples comparison. $28 million per aircraft… less than half the cost of even an F-16 or Gripen.
If Russia were actually capable of producing modern aircraft for a fraction of the cost of a Western equivalent they wouldn’t be getting crushed the way they have been in the commercial aviation world.
The success of western airlines in 1990s can be traced to Exim banks, leases with low interest rates and global supply chain that can scale up.
Its 1/6 the price interms of airliner but they employ 3600 on whole IL-96 project.
http://www.ruaviation.com/docs/3/2016/4/13/104/
According to the official figures released on the respective contract (signed in 2013), the customer paid for this aircraft a sum of mere Rouble 3.75 billion. By today’s currency exchange rate, this comes to less than U.S. dollar 52 million.
JSRIronically I would say the reason that the UK/US/France couldn’t do what the Russians have done in Syria is exactly because of the liberal media. In the UK, before the vote on armed intervention in Syria the BBC and others were full of comparisons with Libya and Iraq and how airpower would not be able to stop things in Syria.
Fast forward to this week, and I hear comment on the BBC that Russia should be applauded for being able to do what the West was too weak to.
liberal media? its the liberals who love Chinese that make them impotent. I am sure Obama took this into consideration.
see the 2013 redline.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/syria-china-russia-opposing-military-strikes
Syria crisis: China joins Russia in opposing military strikes
The Chinese deputy finance minister, Zhu Guangyao, told a pre-G20 briefing: “Military action would have a negative impact on the global economy, especially on oil prices – it will cause a hike in the oil price.”
Plus you don’t have 71000 bombs in inventory to change the ground. considering the poor performance in Libya.
JSRI have no idea where you are getting the idea that I’m doing anything of the sort. In fact, I clearly stated that I “collect facts from different and contradictory sources & cross check them with other sources” and found RT wanting.
you are incapable of gathering and processing facts. see the An-70 example where you put countless posts without any substance. where is that project?
JSRLatest in the “localized VK-2500 production” saga:
http://diana-mihailova.livejournal.com/172078.html
Borisov says this year, from entirely domestic sources 60 VK-2500 were made. Production for 2017 is supposed to be 60% more.
Also claims today they don’t need any Ukrainian engines (aside from Mi-26), but that is obvious BS.
60 is typo it’s 600
JSRAnd that based on what ? absolutely nothing. Listening from Syrian/Rus media or Youtube channel doesnot mean you are immune from propaganda. Itis one thing to dobble check the news and another thing to just believes everything on Youtube
now who you believe when its comes procurement and defence spending announcements for past 20 years.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/27/forces-braced-cuts-defence-cash-squeeze/
Forces braced for more cuts in defence cash squeeze
David Cameron pledged to increase defence spending to the equivalent of two percent of GDP to meet Britain’s Nato commitments. However, the “increase” also meant that certain expenditure including pensions and UN peacekeeping are now included in the two-percent commitment – a move described as “creative accounting” by senior MPs.The fall in the value of sterling compared to the dollar has also meant that new American-sourced equipment, which has already been ordered, is significantly more expensive to buy.
JSRMIG29K and later JF17 does not smoke either. MIG29K use augmented thrust of 10.5 tons when going up from carrier.
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