[QUOTE=BlackArcher;2328141]Just posting the English translation of the Kommersant article that FBW posted. Targeted serviceability rate – 80%, Overall serviceability ~ 42% , serviceability of MiG-29 fleet ~ 20-25%.
Really illuminating.[/QUOT]
25% very good for fighters built in Soviet times in 1980s. Look at how small F-16 fleets are now for F-16As compared to what was inducted in US and EU.
? Sepheronx, the article is from 2013
It was 49% in 2013 for fighters.. with addition of newer planes it should be closer 60% now. There are close to 70 Su-30SM now. Off course it will not match French who rely only on small number of two fighter M2K and Rafale built mostly in 2000.
India’s fault? Or India’s fault that they operate types that they don’t produce or have an indigenous spares program for? You’ve stated that the Mig-29 had no issues in VVS service. That is incorrect, and well documented (look at previous page). The Mirage-2000 have received excellent reviews for availability in IAF service. 65% serviceability/availability would be considered acceptable by most air forces standards. The Migs have never reached that number in the IAF, nor in recent VVS/VKS service.
USAF does operate aircraft as least as old as most Mig’s. I’ve posted the availability of all F-15/16 in USAF service in the “not f-35” thread. The Sukhoi’s get a pass, they are improving with better after sale service and parts, the Mig’s…not so much.
You have data of F-16/F-15 built from 1983-1985 readiness. India MIG-29UPG is upgraded to multirole. It is like putting CFT and strike capability to 1983 F-15C. Where is your data of IAF M2K readiness rate. upto 10 of them crashed.
Perhaps India putting more money into Su-30MKI readiness as they use them at most exercises and longer range. It does not tell anything how much budget and competent manpower they allocating to MIG.
It’s the Indian system can’t accept new technology rapidly. See the slow process of LCA induction of 2 per year and that is not even complex as carrier and ship borne fighter together.
Apaches & Mi-28 design has its own merit , specially if you are fighting a jihadi in Iraq or in Syria , A pilot would be more comfortable to sit inside these two chopper knowing well they might at worst face a 23 mm Ack Ack or Stinger/Igla and in most cases an AK.
But if you add a half decent modern organic air defence cover there would be little benefit in pursuing such a heavy chopper design with limitation in manouverability or hot high operation role , A design like Europen Tiger , Indian LCH or Russian Ka-52 would be a better trade off with emphasis on Manouverability and decent protection levels with hot/high operation possible , survivability would be better in presense of enemy organic AD system and its protection level would be equally good when fighting Jihadi types of targets.
Even the cancelled Comanche program relied on manouveribility & stealth and some of the future attack chopper program from Russian UAV has taken Ka-52 like approach
There is no place for lighter helicopter just like there is no place for light fighter. Bigger helicopters with stronger engines fly fast loaded with more flexibility of diverse weopons at greater ranges to saturate battlefield . bigger power supply to bigger radar for multi target engagement. even bigger cockpit with more LCD displays help in situational awareness in netcentric warfare.
Precisely. Unless you’re routinely transporting ammunition or bullion the aircraft will never reach anywhere near max tonnage. Drive in two BMP-2s (not exactly built out of wood), and your total payload will still only register at 30 tons. But that doesn’t mean the aircraft is ‘under-loaded’.
This is one thing that registered in the old C-17 v IL-476 debates. While technically the Ilyushin’s payload has been increased from 40 to 60 tons, in practice, lifting capacity still remains nearly unchanged since volume almost always maxes out before weight.
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The other interesting thing from the IAF audit report is –
So for a 40 ton payload that’s a range of 5650 km for the PS-90A equipped Il-76 (110 kL fuel) and 9000 km for the C-17 (140 kL fuel). That’s 19.47 L/km & 15.55 L/km respectively. Surprising considering the C-17’s empty weight is 30 tons higher.
I didnot saw you edited. Now your information is even more unreliable regarding IL-76 range /payload. Go to
Volga Denpr website. They have IL-76-TD-90 cargo calculator. This aircraft has PS90 engine but MTOW is 15 ton less than IL-476. Put 39 ton LAV-25 into cargo calculator. It will give you range of 6800km. That aircraft is far less modern than IL-476.
IL-476 is designed for range. 52 tons to 5000km with current engines. That is very competitive with C17 70 tons to 4200km. IL-476 is universal platform for airefuller and AWACS (that AWACS will be multifunctional against air, surface and subsurface )and with new PD-14 engines will enhance its range by 20%. IL-476 active production line bring down the cost.
49% good rate considering most of fleet is from soviet times.
In fact, currently serviceability Air Force aircraft as a whole is only 42%, the serviceability of aircraft fighting strength – 49%
$70k sortie per hour with such low payload.
Really? I think the VVS (VKS now) would disagree:
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5152J020090206
There is a reason that Mig-29 numbers were cut.
It just say maintainance was not performed for the aircraft that was built in Soviet times. It has nothing to do with OEM parts or support.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5152J020090206
Both of the MiG-29s that crashed in eastern Siberia had been in service since 1985, Kommersant wrote.
“The main cause of the crash of the MiG-29 aircraft was the destruction of the keel in the air due to corrosion,” the paper quoted Lt.-Gen. Sergei Bainetov, head of the Defense Ministry’s flight safety department, as saying.
“Those fighter jets on which corrosion was not detected — and they make up approximately 30 percent of all (MiG-29) jets — have been allowed to resume flights
^^^ Mig-29 RD-33 series 3 engine has been in use on Indian Mig-29 for quite some time , HAL makes or atleaset assembles those engines here , Series 3 are also part of 29UPG upgrade program.
Tradationally a lot of Mig-29A series ( not the 29SMT or 35/29K ) was built with low structural and engine life IIRC like 2000 hrs where they are suppose to get replaced , not to mention the engines were very smoky , Even then engines has issues and were not able to live up to those hours.
I thought RD-33 series 3 is part of MIG-29UPG so they are just getting upgraded. India need to model its airforce along the Middleastern airforces where OEM control the maintainance and support and those OEM subcontract to locals depend on competency.
you are not alone
problems with serviceability of mig-29?
malaysia = suppliers fault
romania = suppliers fault
india = suppliers fault
poland = suppliers fault
russia = operators fault, we can do no wrongits already obvious the suspected posters are in denial land and doing their best to discredit the Indians.
Poland/Romania/Malaysia/India are left over soviet based models. I doubt they even have RD-33 series 3 engines. those engines are just installed on MIG-29UPG. Just look at JF-17. over 220 engines ordered. how many grounded due to engines?. JF-17 flew all the way to UK and participated in exercise in Arabian desert.
if there is problem with engine/fbw than availablility will be zero percent. you cant rely on Indian government reports.
I think you mean “where was US support in the 70-90s“. The only ever time India and China went to war it was the US that came to India’s aid while Russia/USSR firmly remained neutral.
(“In 1962, India and US were ‘that’ close to becoming allies in a war against China”)
As things stand today, while Turkey hasn’t had have communists on its border since 1991, the status quo in South Asia nearly as much. That said, I agree that US-India strategic ties are not predicated on some sort of obligation to buy American arms.
why you comparing Turkey with India. Turkey is NATO member since 1950s. fought in Korean war. Provided troops to Afghanistan and played important role in first Desert storm. Provide bases and Radar site to NATO. Three energy pipelines pass through it and even more coming. Turkey manage Air routes and water ways between Middleast/EU.Turkey buy all its imported energy from CIS/Iran. India does not bring anything to the table. procurement is so slow and offsets so big that it is not attractive at all.
Last (and only) turn down was in 2012 IIRC. Radically different scenario today in 2016 with the F-35 on the cusp of operationalization, the Rafale proven to be a pricey ordeal and the FGFA induction at least 10 years away.
its radicaly worse. none of your scenarios that were based on wishfull thinking in past has come to fruitation regarding IAF procurement. Rafale is not any more pricey than F-16E/F-18E when your insisting 30 to 50% offsets.
Additional Su-30s and stepped up Tejas production is sensible. But they still need a (more capable) western aircraft to complement that. With the SH & F-16 orders dwindling away and consequently losing economies of scale, the (ramping up) F-35 program offers the best value for money, although the capital costs associated with a local FACO line will be substantially higher for the (decommissioned) SH/Viper.
India is not some industrial power that it can automatically match Turkey/Italy/Japan. these countries have history of making complex things directly or indirectly working in Germany.