ChoxWell I don’t want to get into finer details on here, but suffice to say that viewpoints have been expressed to them in the past – they’re welcomed but the answers are inevitably the same, so it’s a pointless exercise.
Ultimately, there’s not much that Waddington can do within the current rules and set-up. As I’ve explained earlier, the only way forward (as I see it) is to go for a fundamental change in the whole show format. But while the public are still paying-up to come and see the Red Arrows (and ain’t too fussed about anything else) then you can’t expect Waddintgon to do things any differently – why would they? But from an enthusiast’s point-of-view and in the wider terms of PR and recruiting value, it’s evident that the show is a complete loss now and it can only get worse not better. I’ve seen the way shows have drifted for thirty years or so, and no matter how you look at it, the current format just cannot work forever and in some respects (particularly PR and recruiting) it already fails completely. Sadly, I think we’re destined to simply see shows deteriorate still further as it will probably be a long time before any of the organisers finally accept that the whole show format simply doesn’t perform any useful function any more. It’s only at that stage that we might see things to shift towards different set-ups and styles. As the organiser mentions above, it’s all about being constrained by rules and regulations. Nothing will change until somebody starts to look at changing the rules…
ChoxWe should appreciate what we have provided by a military force which is stretched like a fan belt just about to break.
I know where you’re coming from but it’s the easy answer that everyone gives. My point is that it doesn’t have to be this way as I’ve explained. If the big shows keep on trying to produce the same type of show as they always have done, they’re doomed to eventual failure. It’s pointless to just say that it’s the best we can hope for – we can hope for and expect something much better if only the organisers (and the RAF chiefs) could just manage to think differently and actually have some enthusiasm for promoting the work of the RAF and capturing the interest of potential recruits. Trouble is they just don’t seem to have the capacity or will to do this. The best they can do it seems, is to push the matter onto people who create hair-brained events like the notorious Spirit of Adventure…
ChoxI get the idea, and never knock new thinking but I’m sure most punters would want to see quite a few solo/multi dislays of a/c being wrung out rather than just t/os & landings
Well they might but the point is it’s tough luck – they can’t any more. So it’s a question of what we do with the resources that remain available.
Obviously, organising any show isn’t easy and it will always require personnel, expense and effort. But the concept that I’m suggesting would require no more than is necessarry to stage the current style of Waddington show (possibly less in fact) but it would enable the RAF to present itself to the public much more effectively, at no extra cost. As I say, I don’t see how plodding-along with the current show format is a viable alternative. This year’s show is dull as dishwater, next year’s will probably be even worse (they seem to be pinning their hopes on some Indian aircraft to save it – oh the irony), so surely it makes more sense to kill it off and start afresh? But having said that, I seriously doubt if they will. Requires too much lateral thinking!
ChoxWell as I say, it’s more a case of radical thinking. I don’t think chopping a couple of days out of one week’s flying and shifting it to a weekend is much to ask of personnel at all, especially when it would save a lot of work for personnel who would normally have to give-up a weekend to deal with an air show. As I said, the Navy manages to go off on leave when it suits them so I don’t see why the RAF couldn’t be as flexible – we’re only talking about one week a year maybe. So what if flying is scrubbed for a couple of days and moved? No big deal once a year.
As for the value of the training, I don’t see how that adds up. Surely, if all RAF flying was simply shifted to a weekend then the same flying would be taking place – including trade – that would otherwise have taken place during the week.
In essence, something along the lines I suggested would be far less disruptive to RAF operations than even a normal air show. Granted, it would still require personnel to oversee the public side of the event, but compared to a normal air show it certainly requires less time and cost for pre-rehearsed air display sequences. In essence it would be rather like arranging a Tactical Fighter Meet or a Joint Warrior – something like that, at a base where the public can have their show site on the other side of the runway. No air display flying (well maybe you could slip-in the BBMF and Reds at the end of the day!), just aircraft going about their business, and a few requests for aircraft to fly through or do a roller/overshoot or flyby. The result is a flying schedule which would have been taking place in any case, the only difference being that the public is there to see it. For the enthusiast the result is a much more interesting display than any show organiser could hope to stage these days.
All it requires is that shift of attitude to grasp the notion of block-movement of flying, and the concept of combining regular activities with public scrutiny. Absolutely no reason why it couldn’t be done and we’d all be a lot better off, RAF, public and enthusiasts alike. It’s just the problem of convincing conservative thinkers that just can’t imagine doing anything differently, methinks.
ChoxWell naturally the Waddington Show organisers aim their efforts at the general public and enthusiasts are just a secondary concern. As far as the public is concerned they’ll love the show no matter what. My gripe is that the RAF like to portray the show as their annual “showcase” for the public and in that respct it’s rubbish! Likewise, it’s supposedly a recruiting tool as well, but I fail to see how a gaggle of aircraft parked between burger vans is going to inspire anyone to join the RAF. The flying programme is dire – no matter how you look at it. If the concept of inspiring recruits comes down to a Typhoon and the Red Arrows then why bother? You can see them all over the place.
I know the organisers work hard but they just don’t have the mind-set to stage anything outside of the age-old show format. Clearly, the RAF cannot find aircraft, personnel or resources to stage flying demonstrations any more and even finding aircraft for static display is getting to be a struggle. So surely it’s time that the whole show concept was dumped and a completely new approach was adopted? For example, as has been said above, even getting a VC10 for static display is a major task now, so surely under a different arrangement, a routine VC10 training sortie could involve a couple of overshoots? Not a “display” but way more interesting than seeing the aircraft dumped between a row of tents. Okay, it means taking advantage of week-day flying schedules (rather like shows such as St.Mawgan used to do) but why the hell can’t one day’s flying be scrubbed and shifted to just one weekend? A day off in the week ensures that personnel don’t have to perform any extra work. It’s not like it’s impossible – for heaven’s sake the Navy shuts up shop and goes on block leave sometimes!
Point is, the RAF is in the business of flying – the public (particularly enthusiasts) want to see flying up close, who why the hell can’t the two things get together? It’s madness! Given that the RAF is flying every day of the week, it seems logical that the key is to create an event where the RAF goes about its business and simply allows the public to come in and see up close. It would require much less by way of resources and we’d probably see way more than we ever will again at a conventional air show. All it takes is the ability to think things differently. Why the hell can’t just one day’s flying be shifted from a week day, aimed to operate from Waddington (or any other suitable station) and allow the public to see aircraft take off, land, do a flyby, refuel or whatever? Gotta be more interesting than the current show format. Clearly, it could be done, but it’s a case of convincing the powers-that-be that it’s worth trying. As it is, it seems that everyone is still flogging the old air show “dead horse” until it’s ground into dust.
The current situation is absurd. The RAF is busy flying all week and yet they can’t spare a thing to show to the public. Surely, the key is to find a way to allow the public to see routine flying, rather than obsessing with the need for “displays” as such. We all know that “meets” and exercises take place which involve deloying aircraft to a particular base, so why can’t aircraft be brought together under this arrangement? It would mean that the RAF wasn’t wasting resources on a “show” but it would allow us to see things up close, which is all we want really. There’s enough space to divide operational flying from the public side of an airfield, so what’s the problem? Gotta be better than losing everything just so we can see a solo Typhoon gyrate in ever-decreasing circles for five minutes, isn’t it?
ChoxI’m over in Sheffield so the best way for me to do Waddington is on the train – walk down and either go into the show or walk down the A15 and get a better view (there’s an irony in that somewhere!). I know it’s a problem though if you haven’t got car transport – especially these days when there ain’t all that many shows to choose from!
ChoxTrue! Think it will be worth a longer drive to Yeovilton or Leuchars. I don’t see any point in shelling-out twenty quid just on principle for a show which is on a par with a typical Church Fenton event from about thirty years ago! If the best they can do is cater only for Joe Public, then let Joe Public buy the tickets!
ChoxI believe there’s some re-jigging going on because the two Saudi Typhoons (from Warton) scheduled for the static have cancelled? But then when you’ve seen one Typhoon you’ve seen ’em all!
The only vaguely interesting part of the show (excluding the magnificent Vulcan of course) will probably be the E-3/Nimrod/Sentinel fly-by which will probably be over before most of the punters have even got into the show site. Even that isn’t much of an event though – just a stately fly-by from each aircraft in trail.
It’s a non-event. Okay, if they want a show to raise a bit of money then why not call it an Open Day and leave it at that? The notion of pushing the International Air Show theme is just laughable and misleading. Technically they can get away with it (but then just one Cessna from France would be enough to do that) but we all know that the result is going to be a prize bore. Quite how the show is some sort of “flagship” display or some sort of promotional/recruiting tool for the RAF I don’t know.
The show is past its sell-by date. I accept that the organisers can’t do much about it but ultimately they do have the ability to step back, take a fresh look at the whole show concept, and look at other ways in which they can present the RAF to the public. There are ways this could be done, but while they keep plodding-on with the same old formula, it’s just going to get more and more tiresome every year. Trouble is, while they continue to succeed in selling tickets to Joe Public (who will happily settle for a bouncy castle and the Red Arrows) they have no interest in doing things any differently.
ChoxIt’s easily the least interesting Waddington show so far. Considering that it’s supposed to be the RAF’s “flagship” event, it’s a joke. I sure ain’t going and I only live an hour away! Over fifty percent of the aircraft on show are civilian and most of the stuff is just parked on the ground – big deal!
The flying display is a complete bore – one “fast jet” in the shape of a Typhoon which will be appearing at loads of other venues. The only attraction is the Vulcan – bit risky if it doesn’t manage to make it. Lovely day out for Joe Public I’m sure but for anyone with more than a passing interest in aircraft… well frankly why bother.
We’ve heard all the disclaimers about operational committments, costs, logistics, and every other excuse in the book, but in the final analysis they’re staging a show for which they charge a pretty hefty entrance fee and frankly it just doesn’t cut it. Ironic that the supposedly smaller shows at Yeovilton and Leuchars look like being much more interesting.
ChoxGlad to hear that the tower might survive. Heaven knows they’ve done enough to try and destroy as much of the airfield as possible already!
Ahh those happy days twenty-odd years ago when I used to pitch-up for the air show arrivals day and a couple of kindly fellas used to invite me over the hedge for a drive round in their BCU Land Rover… wonder whatever happened to them?!;)
ChoxI wouldn’t be surprised if the short notice was intended as a good way to ensure that insufficient time is available to save it. Same old story which happens again and again. As you say, the magazines have no interest in actually doing anything constructive – they passively report on activities but never have the guts to ask questions or seek action.
Presumably the DC-3/C-47 G-AMPO will go the same way eventually, after having wasted so much effort on getting it to Lyneham in the first place. I’ll be even more sad if that machine gets chopped as it was the first aircraft I ever got to fly in when I was but a kid!
ChoxNothing ever changes, does it? Drag it onto the gate, tart it up, admire it for a few weeks then forget about it until it turns into a pile of scrap, then dump it.
How many times has that happened with heaven-knows how many aircraft types?
I’d be inclined to say that this is another instance where the “weight” (if only there was any) of magazines like Flypast. AFM, Aircraft Illustrated, Air Pictorial and Aeroplane should be put behind a co-ordinated campaign to expose Lyneham’s shameful abandonment of another siginificant aircraft and encourage them to do something worthwhile with the aircraft rather than just abandon it (or save the nose – as usual *yawn*).
But of course the reality is that it’ll get a two-inch photo at the bottom of a page in a couple of magazines when it’s scrapped and that’ll be the end of it. Like I say, nothing ever changes…
As for where to put it Bruce, well surely it shouldn’t be going anywhere? There’s more than enough room at Lyneham and that’s where it ought to stay, regardless of the base’s future.
ChoxMaybe I’m missing something here, but how is it somehow a “good thing” for a Lightning to be taken off public display, especially when it’s going to look ridiculous, seen as 29 never operated the F6. Madness!
Surely, they could have at least found a T5? Couldn’t they take the T5 from Newark and loan the F6 to Newark in exchange?
ChoxMaybe I’m missing something here, but how is it somehow a “good thing” for a Lightning to be taken off public display, especially when it’s going to look ridiculous, seen as 29 never operated the F6. Madness!
ChoxLooks like the controller made the climb a tad too high – appears to be a straightforward stall.
Maybe it was done on purpose if the aircraft was redundant? Seems like a coincidence that it was being filmed so maybe it was just an amusing way to destroy an old airframe?
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