GoldenDragonGoldy….I was wondering! Could it be this new Missile that is fitted on the 516. The shape of the boxes are similar (Big twin rectangular boxes). There was a rumor and CDF some time back, that the 516 would be fitted with a long range MLRS like the A-100. Maybe it this…….Just a thought.
Interesting point, Hyper. I went and checked the other Chinese MLRS that at Sino-Defense and though I’m no expert at this particular aspect of the Chinese military, most of the others have round canisters. The 273mm one is the other one with a paired box container. The problem with warships is that the 80X AShMs also have box containers.
edited later: You’re probably right that those are MLRS. The 80X on upgraded Ludas are invariably in quads and placed amidships. They could have decided on another configuration but unlikely.
GoldenDragonThat’s a real ‘glass’ or plastic? cockpit. ๐
Probably plastic to go with the game joystick.
Well, sort of a glass cockpit since there is the plexiglass windshield ๐
GoldenDragonThe L-15 FlyLion and a future competitor, the A-50 Golden Eagle, on the cover of the Aviation World magazine from the mainland.
GoldenDragonThe L-15 FlyLion
Synopsis of QianLong reporter Song Dazhao from Zhuhai on November 1, 2004, on the L-15.
Meeting with the Hong Du group this morning, the L-15 was officially named “FlyLion” (GD’s note: AVIC needs someone who knows English grammar better; “flying” serves as an adjective form of the verb “fly” dammit!)
It is an advance design that enables it to challenge the same space as the European MAKO, Russian YAK-130, MIG-AT, and American/South Korea T-50 “the golden eagle” but less expensive and actually better performance.
The L-15 technical characteristic are: supersonic speed, fly-by-wire control system, high thrust ratio for great maneuvering and performance, simple maintenance, and inexpensive operation costs over its lifetime.
The L-15 airplane uses three-axis quadruple redundancy flight control system . . . Our FBW technology is already mature, therefore the L-15’s use of this FC system does not create a large increase in cost.
The L-15 airplane has the surprising flight performance . . The L-15 uses a layout that includes high wing, a medium aspect ratio wing and big side strip [LERX]. It is reported, the L-15’s take off and landing performance extremely good.
The L-15’s design service life is 10,000 hours, This target is the highest among domestically produced military aircraft which Yao Gaogong expresses great pride in: “Trainer aircraft use is frequent. It is very high over its life time. Our K-8 airplane life had already achieved 8,000 hours. A K-8 in Pakistan flies for 180 hours each month. Therefore the expectancy for the L-15’s life are also extremely high.” The long service life guarantees this airplane with inexpensive usage costs and thus increases ability to compete in the market.
The L-15’s thrust ratio (engine maximum thrust and airplane weight ratio) is above 1.2, this number startled the reporter whose impression was that only fighter aircraft use so high a thrust ratio.
But it make sense in that the L-15 trainer is only one model in a family of planes that will also include light attack airplane and light fighter aircraft as well as other kinds in Hongdu’s development plan. (GD’s note: this could well come into conflict with the FC-1’s modular development plans. If that happens, no PAF buy of the L-15 – which was hinted at in some articles where the PAF is looking for a two-seater FC-1.)
The L-15 airplane flight angle of attack is bigger than 30 degrees which is extremely rare in trainer aircraft . . . Typical third generation fighter aircraft has an angle of attack that is controllable up to around 30 degrees. For example, the F-16 and SU-27 is about 27 degrees – along with FBW development, angle of attack control area has in recent years increases. But F/A-18 could go up to about 40 degrees. Therefore, for the L-15 to achieve above 30 degrees in a controllable angle of attack means this kind of airplane will be extremely splendid under low-speed condition mobility.
Appended later:
Originally, during the design time stage, the L-15 designers considered future battlefield requirements and reduced the RCS value. Stealth ability were considered wherever possible early on during design.
But stemming from cost control considerations, the L-15 airplane does not use a lot of composites. Only in the vertical stabilizer and other places where strength and resistance to deformation is required are composites used. Even so, the L-15 is well within weight specifications. The reporter noted on the L-15 full-scale model, the wing tip carries a PL-8 air-to-air missile. This is quite a heavy air-to-air missile.
Some more stuff on the technical details (unrefined babelfish):
The L-15 airplane simultaneously used the mobile flap and the denticle design in the leading edge, this point once quite makes reporter to be relentless, because looked from the traditional air operated angle, these two was reduced the induced drag the function, but generally did not need also to use. According to Zhang Zongshi introduced that, this mainly is for take into consideration the big angle of attack flight performance. According to the wind tunnel test demonstration, L-15 flies in the big angle of attack, the strip ๆถกand the airfoil-tip vortex can attack the vertical stabilizer, creates the direction stable performance to be insufficient, the denticle function happen to is has before a vortex interference two turbulent flows roles, thus played increased the formidable angle of attack flight performance the function.
Moreover, the L-15 airplane rear part design is extremely unique, vertical stabilizer lower limb not any ่ฎพๅค่ฑ or ๅ้ไผ่ฑ, but is directly cuts into among two tail pipes, this kind of design before never looked has been to. According to introduced that, this mainly is catches a chill the confirmation result, passes through many times the wind-tunnel flyoff, finally has determined this kind of design proposal. “Present rear fuselage or has some unnecessary resistance, after later prototype makes the time possibly also can have some small modification.” Zhang Zongshi said.
A nice shot across the bow to Guizhou and the FTC2000 ๐
At the end of the press conference, a reporter asked to Zhang Zongshi: “The Mountain Hawk” (FTC2000) has completed early test flights. So in comparision to the L-15 in performance, which one is better? Can you compete with in the the market?”
Zhang Zongshi smiled and replied that, “At this point, now that everybody understands the L-15’s technical characteristics and use his own judgement.”
GoldenDragonBTW, great picts Entropy! ๐
GoldenDragonBoth MiG-29s were accredited to AMRAAMS fired by Hwang.
And they said Chinese people can’t drive.
GoldenDragonNice and surprising picture!
My hats off to the Munir fellow if this picture is what it appears to be! They’re load testing the pylons.
GoldenDragonAnd this is all aside from Virginia and Massachusetts insisting on calling themselves “commonwelaths” and not “states”. What is this, the United States And Commonwelaths Of America now? Is that the latest iteration of the abhorrent PC (not PRC ๐ ) movement?
Ah Sean, I believe it is the other 48 who’ve decided to call themselves “states” instead of “commonwealths.” I understand that Virginia is not as dedicated a “commonwealth” as Taxachusetts where taxes redistribute your burdensome “wealth” to the all “commons.”
GoldenDragonFor real, it’s all about the dollars. If the PRC government made the US choose, for example, between the Chinese market and the market in Taiwan, methinks a bunch of Taipei residents would be breaking out the Mao suits again ๐
There are already over 1 million civilians of the Taipei government living in China and dressed in proverbial Mao suits ๐
Mao suits have changed over the years though.
GoldenDragonTaiwan calling itself a free country is like a prision declaring its sovereignty. Or John Kerry going back to Massachusetts after losing the election and deciding to form his own country.
I believe that parts of Massachusetts like Cambridge have already declared themselves semi-autonomous People’s Republics.
I also understand (and DO agree with) the Chinese stance on the issue. If you broke up with your significant other, kicked them out of the house, and they decided to start dating someone else on a corner of your lawn, you’d be right ****ed.
Not to mention that the ‘ex’ is dating a big, muscle-bound bruiser who’d been involved in two big punch-ups in neighboring homes and whose demeanor threatens “I’m going to beat you like a pinyata” every time you even look at him cross-eyed.
Besides, what’s the world going to do? Call for UN sanctions on China for invading a nation that isn’t?
China invading Taiwan is actually a far-fetched idea considering the most powerful truth concerning China and Taiwan is economics. The economic effect the minute China declares an embargo (never mind a blockade) is far more ffective than any military endeavor in a Taiwanese economy that depends on an export surplus for its very survival.
GoldenDragonYes, bigger picture, please! ๐
Never mind the Su-27SM.
GoldenDragonK-8’s new glass cockpit
According to Qianlong (“Thousand Dragons” Beijing-based website), Hongdu has two major goals at Zhuhai, one is unveiling the L-15 “Flying Lion” and the second is introducing the latest edition of the K-8.
The company has brought along a floor model of the new K-8 glass cockpit with three MFDs and a HUD. (GD’s note: it was posted earlier in the previous picts, news and specs thread that the North Xi’an Electronics Co. is providing the electronics.)
Hongdu also said K8 airplane has been exported Pakistan, Egypt, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and 8 other countries with total exports of nearly 200. The PLAAF is currently undergoing mass introduction of the K-8 (domestic variant is known as JL-8.)
GoldenDragonOK, I will give this f*cking sh*t one last try before I give up …
Great picture! I’m glad you got the “f*cking sh*t” over! ๐
GoldenDragonI was under the impression that they finally did decide to get a second deck?
I thought the French were still fighting over whether a CVN was even worth it. What I recall reading was that there is no chance of a second of the class. I could be dated in my reading, though.
Inefficiency equates to “not winning.” When a small navy is constrained by budget allocated to one giant asset, it has less ability to do its other jobs. This is made worse in wartime when your prime asset, the carrier, must be escorted and protected by other assets making your force even less capable of its abilities.
During the USAF/USN Department of Defense wars, the Air Force had an compelling argument against the Navy and that was that not only most of an carrier airwing would spend its time protecting the carrier, a good chunk of the rest of the surface fleet would end up doing the same.
The USN works through this by creating massive carriers and huge escort fleets that have enough assets to defend the prized flattop as well as do the alloted missions (though we have yet to see the USN against a foreign naval power that could seriously threaten a carrier.)
A smaller navy centered around the carrier would end up spending most of its time protecting the carrier.
GoldenDragonOff the top of my head we have……
Britain with the Invincible,Illustrious and Ark Royal,their airwings consist of Sea Harrier FA2’s,Harrier GR.7’s and various marques of Sea King.
The only current credible sea-based naval airwing outside the US. But its ability is highly limited. You can only fight Argentina so many times.
Russia,which has the Kuznetzov that carries an airwing of SU-33 navalized Flankers and various helicopters (ie. Ka27, Ka29 and Ka31)
A large floating showpiece. There isn’t much tactical value when the thing could only venture out a few times a year.
France,which has the Charles De Gaulle,the airwing consisting of Rafales, Super Etendard Modernise’s ,E2 Hawkeyes and various naval helicopters (I for get which ones :confused: ).
It would be formidable once the De Gaulle is fully operational. Then France will pay through the nose to operate it.
Even with good Western efficiency, I don’t see at sea for more than 5 months out of the year. They’ll need a second (not happening) to factor in carrier-based aviation the core force in their doctrine like the US.
Spain has the Harrier carrier Principe de Asturias,carrying an air wing of 22 aircraft normally, made up of a mix of Harrier AV-8B+’s and SH-3’s and AB 212’s
A fun little anti-submarine carrier that works well since Spain is facing absolutely no threat. If Taiwan buys one, it would be a AShM pinyata.
Italy has again,a Harrier Carrier called the Giuseppe Garibaldi which they class as a cruiser. It’s airwing’s a mix of Harrier AV-8B+’s again along with EH-101’s, SH-3’s and AB-212’s
Do Italians have pinyatas?
Thailand is another user of Principe de Austrias class carrier,in the form of the Chakri Naruebet, bought from Spain in 1997. The airwing’s a mix of navalized AV-8A’s and S-70 Seahawks.
This is called a “white elephant” in the land that invented the term “white elephant.” Read our previous thread here on Thai frigates. The Chakri goes out for maybe two training sessions every year. Its operating expenses throws the rest of a competent and efficient navy (by SE Asian standards) out of whack.
Carrier-based aviation simply can’t be run efficiently in small numbers. The operating cost, the training and experience needed to run a carrier and its air wing and, worse of all, the need to escort the thing with assets from the rest of the fleet (already limited by the budget of the carrier) isn’t worth the severely limited range, ability and simply numbers of carrier-based aircraft to be worth it.
Sign In
