A Hollywood blockbuster can have a bigger budget than some air forces. It’s like $150 million for a decent summer flick.

From OKB SUKHOI p225: “Series production of the Su-27 fighter began in the second half of the 1980s.”
“too much co….”
Weak people like “strong” words.

“Strong” words from people who simply never had the experience of facing the US military, Holger.

If they had the collective memories of peoples in the Far East that really have faced American firepower in war, they wouldn’t spend their time claiming “victories” over US forces in some pre-arranged exercise designed to engender goodwill between different militaries.

The Japanese, Chinese, Koreans and Vietnamese really did fight Americans. Collectively as a group they inflicted more casualties on Americans than any other in the 20th Century (of course, Americans killed more Americans than any foreign nation in the Civil War.)

But East Asians were also slaughtered on a massive scale too and this, beyond all else, they remember.

Ask any Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese or Japanese whom they think are the best air force and pilots in the world and they will say pretty much say the Americans.

Of course, if you never had experience fighting a Western power, you simply have no concept of American military firepower.

But if you’ve fought Americans toe to toe in bloody wars in the past and face the possibility of fighting them in the future like the Chinese, you’d have a different perspective on things.

Golden Dragon,

Thanks for your intelligent and refreshing posts. As far as your airline question, for whats its worth , maybe initially a transport pilot has more CRM skills than your average fighter guy, but these are skills easily learned and applied. I have the upmost respect for fighter pilots of any nation. It was my dream to fly them, but unfortunately when my class recieved its “drop” of aircraft we were given 2 fighters for 28 pilots to choose from (we started with 58 pilots, and 5 add on’s) Its the nature of the military…I still got to fly T-37’s and 38’s for a year! But in order for a USAF pilot to get a fighter He/she must be at the very top of their class! So in my example, out of 63 pilots who started only 28 graduated, and only 2 got fighters! Therefore if a fighter pilot is flying a 767 you should feel quite safe!!! Pilot training was by far the hardest endevour of my life…and after a year and a half of training, and watching all those other friends wash out of the program, we were all happy to get our wings!
TTP

Thanks for your opinion, TTP.

Without doubt airlines the world over prefer fighter pilots because they were given the most training of any arm in their respective air forces. But the interesting thing with CRM skills is that while they might be easily learned, developing the proper attitude to employ those skills effectively might be much harder for fighter pilots than for pilots who were trained in aircraft thatrequired a crew.

This question was and still is a very important one in the Far East. You probably know that the S Korean and Taiwanese national airlines have had huge problems with their pilots. Part of it might be culture (too much respect is paid to one’s superior in Confucian societies, so the co-pilot often do not correct the pilot) and part of it might be the training of the fighter pilot who is honed by equal parts surpreme confidence and aggressiveness.

Care to comment on this?

Also, I’d like to hear your thoughts on the following:

China’s carrier industry which recruits exclusively from the PLAAF, because there isn’t a general aviation training industry like the US and Europe, wrestled with this problem (China’s bigger problem in the beginning was the Russian planes in its airlines, since changing to all Boeing and Airbus, China has some of the safest airlines outside of the West.)

The PLAAF produces large amounts of both fighter and transport/large bomber pilots. Of course, the fighter pilots has higher prestige and training. But basic J-6 and J-7 that most ex-PLAAF fighter pilots went through in their active careers are avionically obsolete, austere, maneuverable and dangerously difficult machines to fly.

Would you look for fighter pilots if you were running an airline in China? Or would the Y-8, Y-7 and H-6 pilots be better instead?

Since we’re on training, this is peripherally connect to the thread 🙂

Don’t know about the J-10 price (Unofficially claimed to be USD 25 mil & upgraded one at 29 mil).

But, on the LCA, matt did post an article stating the price at USD 22.7 mil. Hope he can point us to it again.

In this discussion, the J-10 isn’t offered for export yet and there isn’t anything that says the one from the subcontinent is available for export or if there is even a hint of interest from the world’s market.

The only plane in this discussion where there are potential buyers and where a buyer can talk about buying it is the Gripen.

The Pakistanis can talk about buying the J-10 and it is most certainly available to them but it isn’t to anyone else in the world even if there were interest.

If a prospective buyer goes to CAC and asked about buying a fighter, they would most assuredly be pointed to the FC-1.

So the FC-1 should replace the J-10 in this discussion. It has both the interests from possible markets and information that is openly available.

Regarding the usual “never beaten in combat” crap I only have to add that US Armed Forces are too much cowards to mess up with comparable enemy. They only are able to kick some third world nations.. That is fairly as if I (190cm, 190lb, eight years of Jiu-Jitsu and Tae-Kwon Do) were beating 6-8 year old kids living in the neighborhood and then yelling proudly “damn, I am unbeatable!!”

I can guarantee you that I am gonna get 100 “kills” without a single scratch..

Flex, please don’t use words like “cowards” when discussing a particular arm force with a person who has served or is serving in it. It is immensely impolite.

And what is a comparable enemy for the US? There simply isn’t such a thing.

The Soviet Union was long thought to be a peer power with it nukes but the fact remains that Soviet Union was too afraid to enter a hot war with the US in Korea and allowed the Chinese to take up the fighting when US forces approached Chinese AND Russian borders,

The USSR backed off again over Cuba.

Then it died under the weight of trying to match American military spending without proving it could take on Americans head to head. It couldn’t even tackle the problem of getting bread or soap to a department store on regular basis.

The USSR is gone now. It was a poor challenge but it was the closest opponent the US ever had.

There is no one even close today.

Unless the US begin attacking its own allies like Britain and France or American-trained and equipped air forces like S Korea, Taiwan and Japan, it won’t find a challenge. Russia might put up a challenge but it won’t last too long. They can’t even keep their air and naval bases running properly in peace time.

I wouldn’t even bother with the Pentagon attempts to put up China as a peer competitor with report after report. It is an attempt to create a comparable power in a world that really lacks one.