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GoldenDragon

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September 19, 2007 at 6:01 am in reply to: Pakistan's Missiles and Strategic News/Disscussions #1793871

GoldenDragon
Participant

China has traditionally provided better aircraft for export than for its own air force. The F-7PG is a prime example.

The term “monkey” variant was and is NEVER associated with Chinese products but with Soviet one. You look at every item exported to the outside world, Y-12, F-7 and K-8, the exported product is better than the one that China itself uses.

Much of that comes from foreign engines, avionics and ancillaries unavailable to the Chinese (Garrett engines, Martin Baker ejection seats, etc.)

On the Pakistani front, it’s idiotic to think that the PAF or PA would settle for inferior “monkey” versions when it has assess to French and American products.

The PLA can do “reject” items that are superior because of cost and because of volume. There was no doubt that the J-9 was the superior design but yet the J-8 was the one accepted in numbers while the J-9 was canceled.

Unlike the USSR, China doesn’t have client states that it sends “rejects” to. To gain market share in the world market, China had traditionally sold better product to the outside world than what is consumed inside. This is the case for both civilian and military.

That said, if China does hold back on technology it’s because of fear of its systems falling to the US. Those systems won’t be sold at all.

September 16, 2007 at 1:54 pm in reply to: PLAAF News, Photos and Speculation #11 #2512593

GoldenDragon
Participant

A small teaser for all Chinese aviation enthusiasts !

I know I have been quite “arduously” for some of You because of my endless questions on Chinese military aviation topics, but finally here’s the result.

Once initiated by Tony Buttler for an article regarding for an English magazine “Chinese Secret Projects” – THANKs for that ! – it now became a German three-part version at first.

These articles are to be published in the German “Flieger Revue” related to the development of the Chinese military aviation and its industry.

The first part of that includes the build-up after the foundation of the PRC until the mid/late 1970s with the history of the J-6 family, the early Q-5 and J-7 versions, the J-8I and J-9 programme for the fighters and the H-5, H-6 developments as the bomber projects H-6I, H-8I and H-8II (albeit very speculative !)

http://www.fliegerrevue.de/fr_extra.asp?PG=157&AID=18595

Part two – out now in September 2007 – continues with the J-7-family, the J-8I and J-8II, the speculative heavy J-10 fighter, the light-weight projects J-11 and J-12 until the latest projects from the 80s like the J-13 … along with modernised and special versions of the H-6 and Q-5. For the mud-movers it will include the JH-7 and Q-6 projects.

http://www.fliegerrevue.de/fr_extra.asp?PG=158&AID=19324

The final part – hopefully out in November – will then conclude the story with the Su-27 (J-11), J-10 and FC-1 and an outlook to the future !

For more esp. some of the colour profiles look here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1641.0

Maybe some of You might be interested (even if written in German) I hope You like it, … cheers, Deino

Congrat, Deino!

September 5, 2007 at 3:18 am in reply to: Russia-China military cooperation on the rocks #2048612

GoldenDragon
Participant

Heck! The Chinese don’t need no war against Russia. The Russian far east is turning Chinese anyway!

To be prefectly honest, it is the FAR EAST. It’s not really Russian. That land was originally part of the Chinese Empire before being stolen by the Russians.

Just as Europe remained European after the invasion by the Huns and Turks, the “Russian” Far East will remain East Asian long after the Russian invasion.

September 4, 2007 at 2:18 am in reply to: Chinese exports, part III! #2515601

GoldenDragon
Participant

Zambian Harbin Y-12 and Xi’an MA60.

September 4, 2007 at 1:58 am in reply to: Chinese exports, part III! #2515610

GoldenDragon
Participant

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90778/6253977.html

AVIC I has exported MA60 to 10 countries since 2004, with overseas orders of 98 aircraft in total.

The Y-7/An-24 variant has become a hit. Fighter sales might get most of the headlines but utility turboprops like the MA60 and the Y-12 give a steadier stream of sales.

September 3, 2007 at 7:17 pm in reply to: Chinese exports, part III! #2515694

GoldenDragon
Participant

The Z-11W is armed with HJ-8. Possible that the Argentine Army is looking at this variant since the Argentine Army is looking at it for multiple roles. The September issue of AFM said that in order for the assembly line to be economically viable Argentina is asking to not only build but export their Z-11s as well.

September 3, 2007 at 5:31 am in reply to: Chinese exports, part III! #2515856

GoldenDragon
Participant

Z-11 on trials in Argentina. Tested by the Argentine Army in various parts of the country for multiple roles. Possible deal of upwards of 40 aircraft and an assembly line in Argentina.

July 27, 2007 at 5:06 am in reply to: TRANSFORMERS (the movie) #2525242

GoldenDragon
Participant

Megan Fox was worth the admission price.

June 27, 2007 at 1:36 pm in reply to: status of the F-8IIM #2539539

GoldenDragon
Participant

The PL-11 is probably a backburner project behind the PL-12 but I don’t think it’s a completely dead project.

Especially not for the export market. The FD-60 is a PL-11 variant designed for the export market. In fact, it’s designed for the US-supplied aircraft as well as Chinese.

June 24, 2007 at 5:13 am in reply to: Chinese News, Photos, and Speculation #10 #2542042

GoldenDragon
Participant

From TASS:

Forty-six PLAAF aircraft in Russia for the SCO exercises in August.

http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/1-0&fp=467df158be9903b8&ei=2-59RuvzGJawpQKHsMAs&url=http%3A//www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html%3FNewsID%3D11656036%26PageNum%3D0&cid=0

China military, hardware for SCO exercise to arrive via Russia

23.06.2007, 13.09

MOSCOW, June 23 (Itar-Tass) – Russia’s top military said on Saturday that Chinese military personnel, armaments and hardware would arrive to the area of the CSO Peace Mission 2007 military exercise only via Russia in bypassing Kazakhstan.

They will be delivered by trains and aircraft of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army, the deputy commander-in-chief of the Russian Ground Troops, Colonel General Vladimir Moltensky said.

The first group will arrive at the Chebarkul training range in the Chelyabinsk region on July 31, while the rest military will arrive between August 1 and 4, he said.

They will arrive earlier to hold several joint trainings with other participants in the manoeuvres from other countries of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, the general explained.

He said up to six trains with personnel, armaments and hardware will head to Russia from China. Chinese military and armaments will arrive via the cities of Zabaikalsk, Novosibirsk and Omsk.

Forty-six Chinese military aircraft will be engaged in the exercise.

General Moltensky noted that after foreign military cross the Russian border, Russia will assume all expenses connected with their lodging, meals as well the manoeuvres themselves, in line with international practice.

Army General Alexei Maslov, Commander-in-Chief of the Ground Troops, said about 2,000 Russian military and over 500 units of hardware will take part in the exercise.

Maslov said the Peace Mission 2007 exercise will be held from August 9 to 17 on Chinese and Russian territories. The first stage of the exercise, including political consultations, will take place in China. The second, main, stage will be held at the Chebarkul training range of the Volga-Urals military district. Over 5,000 military from all six SCO states will participate.

Chinese boards said the J-10 and JH-7A will make their first appearance outside China. Anticipating pictures for this thread in August 🙂

June 21, 2007 at 1:05 am in reply to: Chinese Su-27s their cooproduction status #2543797

GoldenDragon
Participant

Soviet designs were not tested to its limits. They stabilished a goal and tested the plane to the intended limit. I visited Chengdu Aircraft Corporation in 1987 to see F-7M production line. They were testing a J-7 in a torture chamber simulating high altitude flying. Original MiG-21F were designed to fly only 1,500 hours. The plane at Chengdu Factory flew 2,500 hours and were 10,000 hours at the torture jig with no negative effects. It could fly 5,000 hours safelly with no structural fatigue.

Now, Russian companies are testing their planes to its limits. Su-27 and MiG-29 can fly now 5,000 hours. By the way, in 1987 CAC had a F-16 there. I and a six pilots Brazilian Air Force comitive saw it.

Cheers

Pepe Rezende

Nice bit of information, Pepe! Especially the F-16. In 1987, the US wouldn’t have been that disturbed by it being there either. This was two years before Tianenmen Square.

Thanks for sharing.

June 17, 2007 at 1:43 pm in reply to: Mig-21PF and Chinese J-7 #2545771

GoldenDragon
Participant

GoldenDragon, there seems to be a missunderstanding. The yugoslav MiG-21 you posted, is a -bis. These are PFs, both with wide and narrow chord fin:

Doh! I stand corrected.

June 17, 2007 at 2:10 am in reply to: Mig-21PF and Chinese J-7 #2545965

GoldenDragon
Participant

GoldenDragon wrote:

😮
No way, they are completely different. The PF has a forward hinged canopy, small back hump, small chord tailfin and no parachute housing under it, only 2 wing pylons, no gun…..

Again, externally, they are similar. Similar does not mean same and they certainly look like each other and not the F.

PF

MF-derived J-7D

June 16, 2007 at 2:46 am in reply to: Continued utility of the modernized F-7 series??? #2546313

GoldenDragon
Participant

With more on the way? So, with a 20-30 yr life, we could be seeing J-7s well into the 2030s. How long with the J-7 lines be open, till the JF-17s start coming out?

Probably until the civilian side business reforms start to hit the defense industries harder. The problem with China is production lines are hard to close down since they mean jobs. They’re still building new A-5s at Nanchang and late variants of J-8IIs at SAIC.

With the J-7, supporters of the line have a good argument in that the aircraft is still selling. Though once the FC-1 comes on full, that line might be shifted to Guizhou, another firm which makes of the FT-7 and JL-9 trainers. The J-7 was originally a line shifted to Chengdu from China’s premier fighter builder, Shenyang (J-11.)

June 16, 2007 at 2:33 am in reply to: Mig-21PF and Chinese J-7 #2546336

GoldenDragon
Participant

Almost certain, they had mistaken the MF for the PF. The Egyptian MF connection to the J-7C/D is pretty well documented. It came during a period where both Egypt and China were turning towards an alliance with the US in the 1980s.

The first Egyptian aircraft was sent to China in 1979. (Chinese-built Romeo class SSKs went in the other direction to Egypt.) The first large spined J-7C was flown in the mid-1984. Before then there were no Chinese MiG-21s with the enlarged spine.

Hope this helps. Externally, the PF and MF|J-7C/D are similar so the Academy model would still end up looking like an actual PLAAF aircraft even if they insists its a PF.
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