GoldenDragonInteresting subject. China is testing domestic oil products in a “new fighter.” At first glance, it seems like the FC-1 but the story goes on to say one engine was using a domestic lubricant while the other one used foreign ones as a control.
Twin engines, so might be the MKK/MKK2s, J-11, or the JH-7A. More likely a Flanker.
The Chinese air force some fuel oils research institute attacks and captures the new fighter aircraft oil used difficulty
——————————————————————————–2004-04-21 03:33:57 clicks:102
According to the armed force newspaper disclosed that, in recent years, the Chinese military only was engaged in the aviation fuel oils and the aviation fuel oils equipment research air force some fuel oils research successively obtains the science and technology to reward 193 items, national level rewarded 12 items, the army and the province department level advance in technology one, the second prize 46 items.It is reported, the new fighter plane uses 20 many kinds of imports fuel oils, the variety is many, quantity not one, supply, storing safeguard difficulty. Is under the control of others fuel oils supply mechanism serious influence new fighter plane performance display. The air force fuel oils through to import the fuel oils and the domestically produced substitution fuel oils carry on the massive compositions analysis, the performance evaluation and the simulation test, to the performance or the use function close import product, in line with carries on the simplification by the superior generation of poor principle, determined uses 10 many kinds of domestically produced fuel oils directly to replace 21 kind of imports fuel oils; To the domestic non- corresponding substitution product other import fuel oils, redevelops the new product.
The rocket fuel is the airplane “the grain ration”, accounts for the proportion in the fuel oils consumption to be very big. The Chinese air force fuel oils research institute’s experts proposed straight takes over the use of the domestically produced rocket fuel substitution import rocket fuel the suggestion, after fries in oil diligently, the domestically produced fuel oils have finally received use “the pass” in the new airplane and the similar airplane. The use domestic product fuel oils replace the import fuel oils, saves foreign exchange several million US dollars every year for the country, was the air force battle efficiency growth has made the prominent contribution. At present, China has carried on the promoted use to the new fighter plane use domestic product fuel oils.
In the Run glossy aspect, the new lubricating oil which this develops carries on the contrast experiment in on the air force some teacher new fighter plane several engine. The participation test airplane, the right side engine adds is the domestically produced new lubricating oil, the left side engine adds imports the backup lubricating oil. In the flight process engine each kind of situation is normal, has not appeared with the lubricating oil related breakdown, the magnesium content by far is lower than the target request in particular, the operational performance surpasses the senate trial import backup lubricating oil.
Very quick, the domestically produced fuel oils completely through the expert appraisal, this symbolized passes through 10 years research new equipment fuel oils domestic product to mark the complete period.
Edition: Long Xin
GoldenDragonOriginally posted by AinuMan
please don’t bring in you and hamburger’s conflicts in here, I’d like to keep this flame free if you don’t mind, thanks 🙂
You’re right, Ainuman, I apologize profusely 😀
GoldenDragonOriginally posted by Ja Worsley
Burger, mate this is not a right or wrong thing, it’s a lets see what you’d do thing, and that’s what I’d do.I’ve taken offence at this, I’ve tried to ignor what you’ve said on a lot of things but I guess you’ve pushed the wrong button tonight.
Ja, I hate to say it, but attempting a serious debate with someone who uses his time here attempting to be “cute” ( :rolleyes: ) and flooding the forum with hamburger pictures is not a good way to expend brain power 🙂
GoldenDragonThat’s censoring legitimate artistic interpretation!
It’s like putting a Wonderbra on the Venus de Milo.
GoldenDragonOriginally posted by google
Yeah, lot’s of women from Venus too! I’ll be the first one to get in line….
You will find these on Venus
GoldenDragonOz now has a small PLAAF (SKs and MKKs) sitting on its doorstep.
Sukhoi is getting a lot of mileage out of its Chinese funded projects.
Can’t wait for pictures of MKKs from the Vietnamese air force (is bound to happen with Indonsia upgrading).
GoldenDragonNice pictures, Sd-10!
I have a few of those pictures but they’re small. I’m stealing yours 😀
GoldenDragonOriginally posted by SD-10
Now thats historic
I wonder if it’s actually A2G bombs or just live PL-5s.
It’s impossible that PLAAF will take FC-1 so many. Probably a moderate batchs of FC-1 (not more than 100s) would service in PLAAF to replace the old Q-5 for strike support.
At its height, in the 1980s, the PLAAF had around 400 Q-5s in an Air Force of close to 4000.
I don’t think it’ll replace the Q-5 one for one but 200 isn’t exceptionally large compared to the Q-5/J-7 force that needs to be replaced.
Even with 500 J-10s and 500 J-11s/Su-30s and several hundred JH-7A and late models J-8IIs, I think there are still another 1000 slots for a cheaper fighter-bomber. Unless the F-7MF happens, it’s the FC-1.
GoldenDragonhttp://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_5-9-2003_pg7_45
An older story but rather important now as the numbers of 1000 is being bandied about. There are some inaccuracies that Kanwa threw into the story without much evidence such as the Mig-33 reference. There is nothing that shows CAC ever have worked with MiG.
But the number of planes is large and would be interesting if it happens or it is simply a guessimate by the author.
Chinese air force considers buying 200 JF-17 jets
BEIJING: The Chinese air force is contemplating the purchase of a joint Sino-Pakistani fighter jet which could greatly boost the prospects for the FC-1 on the world market, a Canadian-based military website reported on Thursday.
China and Pakistan tested the first prototype of FC-1, also known as the JF-17 Thunder or the Super J-7, on August 25.
A publicly held test flight was made with great fanfare on Wednesday in southeastern Chengdu city, Sichuan province, with Pakistani Air Force Chief Kaleem Saadat attending the ceremony. According to the Kanwa Information Center, a Toronto-based organization that monitors Chinese military developments, Russia’s Phazotron Radar Design Bureau is promoting an upgraded “phased array radar” used on FC-1 in the hopes that the Chinese air force will purchase the jet.
The FC-1 is a fighter based on the defunct Russian Mig-33 jet and besides Russian avionics, also contains Russian engines.
“The reason this promotion effort was given great attention was that Russia believes the Chinese Air Force may order some FC1 fighters,” Kanwa’s Chang Yihong told AFP.
Although the Pakistani air force has ordered 150 of the planes, the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has reportedly balked at purchasing it due to the ongoing development of a better fighter jet, the J-10.
The PLAAF is consequently mulling the purchases of up to 200 of the FC-1, military sources in Beijing said. A purchase by the PLAAF would increase the production run and reduce the unit cost of the jet, they said.
China and Pakistan have poured in excess of 500 million dollars into the development of the FC-1, which is being built by the Chengdu Aircraft Group Corp, in cooperation with China Aero Technology Import and Export Co.
According to previous reports, China is targeting markets in the Middle East, Africa and South America for sales of the plane, which is expected to be sold in the neighborhood of 15 million dollars each.
Chinese state press reports said the fighter would be attractive to overseas buyers due to its avionics and maneuverability, which is comparable to that of the US-built F-16, a 1970s-vintage aircraft.
The project, which has been in the works for more than a decade, has seen several bumps along the road, beginning with the withdrawal of US cooperation following in the wake of the 1989 Tiananmen massacre.
Meanwhile, China has hailed its cooperation with Pakistan in various fields, including defence sector.
Regarding the JF-17 fighter, a spokesman of the Chinese Foreign Office Kong Quan said in Beijing, ”We have good cooperation in many fields.”
A Chinese official newspaper, Beijing Youth Daily reported that the aircraft performed difficult manoeuvres, such as U-turn and 360-degree side rotation. The plane also broke a rule by carrying bombs on its maiden flight.
A Pakistan Air Force official said, “As part of the programme, Pakistan will train engineers and pilots in the field of aircraft design, development, manufacturing and flight testing. This will contribute in meeting the country’s defence requirement. —-AFP/APP
GoldenDragonAnother version of the story posted previously by PLA and others. this one just a little bit longer.
Archiving.
http://www.paknews.com/main.php?id=3&date1=2004-04-17
PAF To Have First Batch Of JF-17 By 2006
Updated on 2004-04-16 22:03:37
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan : April 17 (PNS) – The first batch of eight JF-17 Thunder aircraft jointly manufactured by Pakistan and China will be inducted in Pakistan Air Force by mid of 2006.
Briefing newsmen about the success story of the maiden flight by JF-17 Thunder, Chief Project Director of JF-17, Air Vice Marshal Shahid Lateef here, said that Pakistan would not only manufacture these aircrafts locally but also export these most modern aircraft. He said the second Proto Type of JF-17 Thunder aircraft flew its successful maiden flight at Chengdu, in China on April 9. This is the third JF-17 aircraft to be manufactured as the second aircraft was manufactured only for the ground tests, therefore, presently only two aircraft are flying.
The first Proto Type of JF-17 aircraft, which had flown its maiden flight in September last year, is already passing through an extensive flight-testing phase. The flight of the second Proto-type is considered to be yet another important milestone in the progress of the Project. This aircraft has been manufactured and flown, well before its scheduled date. While these two Proto types of JF-17 are being used for exploring the ‘operational flight envelope of the aircraft, and for testing of the aircraft sub-systems, yet another Proto-type is planned to be manufactured for the purpose of integration and certification of avionics and weapons suite.
Shahid Lateef said the flight-test programme of JF-17 aircraft is moving ahead smoothly and the flight-test and evaluation programme has entered its advanced stage of evaluation when the aircraft flew successfully in supersonic regime for the first time. He said Pakistani and Chinese test-pilots and engineers, involved in the flight testing programme of JF-17 aircraft are pleased with the excellent performance of the aircraft in all phases of its flight.
A practical manifestation of the pilot’s high level of confidence in the aircraft’s superior handling characteristics and reliability of its systems was demonstrated last year, when the test pilot performed mild aerobatics during the third flight of its first Proto-type. AVM Shahid Lateef said the JF-17 programme, as a whole, is progressing at a steady pace. He said by virtue of its high combat potential, economical cost, ease of maintenance and assured supply of spares, the aircraft has a number of potential customers, especially in the Third World countries.
Since quality of the product and timely completion of the project are of vital significance for marketing of the aircraft, therefore, the JF-17 team is making all possible efforts to assure qualitative and timely completion of their task. He said so far the programme has been able to meet all laid-down time lines without any delays satisfied with the high quality of aircraft’s flight performance, reliability of its sub-systems and unhindered progress of the project.
AVM Sahid Lateef said in the first phase, Pakistan would achieve fifty per cent target of its local manufacturing which will be followed by 100 cent indigenous production of the aircraft with the help of transfer of technology from China. He said it would be first high level transfer of technology to Pakistan and added that by mid of 2006 Pakistan would manufacture 16 aircraft, out of which 8 would be for China.
Shahid Lateef said Pakistani engineers and officials who are getting training in China would come back and work at KAMRA for locally manufacturing JF-17 Thunder. Replying to a question, he said, unlike procured programme, this will be a joint venture with transfer of technology to develop Pakistan’s own aircraft for domestic use and for its export.
The End.
GoldenDragonA new picture of CFTE.
Look at the two camouflaged JL-8s!
The Blue and white markings on the Mi-8s reminds me of the JH-7A paint scheme.
GoldenDragonWell the most obvious reflecting surface, especially to ground radar scanning from below, is large wing area.
SD-10 is right, the stories said stealth had been taken into consideration although it wasn’t the most important consideration.
We know the F-22 looks nothing like the F-117 because the techniques and computing power to calculate comforming angles simply wasn’t available 15 years ago with the Wobbly Goblin was first designed. Stealth doesn’t require the funny, faceted look of the F-117 but it was far easier to calculate with large sections of flat surfaces.
If they don’t believe what the designers said then it’s their right and not worth arguing with. Who cares? We just post the stories and pictures. And point out what was said and could be seen.
GoldenDragonOriginally posted by phrozenflame
(remember to ignore)anyone knows the RCS of SD-10?? and of meteor and aim-120 for sake of comparison…
RCS of a missile should be rather small. The larger radar wave reflections come from 90 degree angles (like the vertical tail stabilizer obviously.)
A missile is almost always carried with fins canted at a 45 degree angle. This reduces the reflection in much the same way the angled twin stabilizers of the F-22 or JSF reduce reflection.
If you’re worried about reflections off the warload, then the things like adaptor-shoes and drop-tanks are probably a little greater.
GoldenDragonOriginally posted by google
I have to say I like your new avatar much better GD.The ARJ21 is hardly indigenous even- it relies quite heavily on foreign parts, e.g. engines etc… although you’re right- the regional jet market is predicted to be huge in China, although I was of the opinion that most regional jet orders were going to Embraer (sp)? anyhow, and not to some UK group.
Not 100% indigenous but ARJ-21 will build the local industry. Leverage from the home market will make sure that Chinese firms get contracts and work that’ll pull up the skillset and tooling machinery across the industry.
GoldenDragonIn China’s case, the main market in both military and, even more importantly, civil aviation is at home.
The ARJ-21 would be a success simply on the home orders alone (30 are already ordered before first flight). The same with the J-10 and FC-1 simply because the PLAAF and PLANAF need to modernize.
Sukhoi was lucky enough top have China both embargoed by the West and before the home industries modernized.
Of course, without the embargo after 1989, the UK might still providing spares and new models of the Harrier (China was seriously looking into this during the 1980s) and the Spey today.
I think there’ll be an “AsianFighter” consortium one of these days 🙂
There is an East Asian computer operating system project going on right now between China, S Korea and Japan.
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