GoldenDragonFirst FC-1 flew in this color
GoldenDragonAccording to Chinese language reports, the WS-10A has 13200 kg of thrust to the AL-31FN’s 12,500 and the original WS-10’s 12200 kg.
The WS-10A is also supposed to be lighter than the AL-31FN so performance would jump in accordance if the reports are true.
The WS-10A was tested successfully on J-11 in June of 2002 so the work on this engine is on its home stretch.
Most people believe the WS-10A will power the J-11B first before being modified for the J-10 because the mountings for the J-11s are different.
GoldenDragonFrom Jane’s
http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/jdw/jdw021210_2_n.shtml
China launches new stealth fighter project
By Yihong Chang, JDW Correspondent, Zhuhai
The Shenyang Aircraft Company has been selected to head research and development of a new heavyweight fighter for China’s People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), according to a senior source at the China Aviation Industry Corp I (AVIC I).
Development of the engines and weapon subsystems for the fourth-generation fighter has been underway for some time, according to the source, who revealed that a number of design concepts have already been created. Wind-tunnel tests of these are about to start. Images of the concepts show a twin-engine aircraft sharing some design traits with Lockheed Martin’s stealthy F/A-22 multirole fighter, now undergoing tests with the US Air Force, such as the internal carriage of its weapon systems. The Chinese designs retain a more conventional wing, however, and use a single vertical tail fin.
AVIC I officials told JDW that the new aircraft – tentatively dubbed the J-X and possibly to receive the service designation J-13A – could use the WS10A turbofan engine designed by the Shenyang Liming Motor Company during its development and trials process.
In development for more than a decade, the WS10-series powerplant completed air trials earlier this year with an Su-27SK (NATO reporting name: ‘Flanker-B’) fighter. The WS10A is scheduled for introduction with the PLAAF’s new J-10A fighter, which has yet to be formally unveiled.
Continuing research into advanced control techniques is expected to in time allow the air force to field WS10A-powered J-10A and J-X fighters equipped with thrust-vectoring nozzles offering improved aircraft manoeuvrability.
While AVIC I sources will not speculate when the new fighter might make its first test flight, a debut around the end of the decade could be expected if the project matches the development process for China’s J-10A and J-8D projects.
286 of 595 words (you could buy the rest of the article from Jane’s 😀 )
GoldenDragonOriginally posted by plawolf
kya:“The J10 is speculationware so far.
The FC1 has not flown after the initial flights.
And now there is more speculation on the Chinese equivalent of a F22 rip-off?
The only proven fighters designed so far by China are the Mig 21/19 clones and their derivatives. When the J10/FC1 enters squadron service then we can unequivocally say that these are original Chinese designs which are actually serving.
A wind tunnel model has the Chinese posters in raptures and dreaming about F22 equivalents already. Wonder how soon we will see “CG” pictures leaked on the internet claiming the XXJ is already flying?
megaLOL”
one word to describ that post, ignerence. :rolleyes:
u might want to do a little research before u start making such unfounder BS statements. just to piont u in the reight direction, look up FBC-1/JH7, and thats over a decade old.
Never EVER bother answering Indian flamers, PLAWolf. I don’t.
Alex asked the question about F-22 and possible equivalent not a Chinese person. Answer people who made a honest inquiry, not flamers.
GoldenDragonA model that can stand up to wind speeds equivalent of a plane going Mach. Conditions one might find in a “wind tunnel.” When your plastic 1/72 won’t do.
GoldenDragonYes, it does look like a F-22 from bottom up.
GoldenDragonXXJ wind tunnel model
GoldenDragonOriginally posted by crobato
What you think this is a f**cking joke? Grow up and see the world for kriss sakes. The problem of continued deficits is a serious problem. You don’t grow money in trees and the worst consequence would be if OPEC decides to use the Eurodollar as its standard for petrodollars, and the shift to the Eurodollar as the world standard trade currency.
You can’t expect anything other than worthless one-liners from Vortex, or Vympel, for that matter.
V is for vapor that is without form or substance 😀
GoldenDragonOriginally posted by Vortex
Exactly, there were a lot of Taiwanese in South America, especially Argentina…until it went down the drain….follow the MONEY. Just like there’s a lot of Taiwanese in the US. However using a comparison of US population and Taiwan population to extrapolate things is mathematically flawed…maybe even a sin 😮 shows lack of understanding of statistics 😀 As to US and Russia during the cold war…no they were immigrants, usually exchange people….learning about culture, and maybe secrets (since Soviet Union had no money to be made…but maybe that’s why there were Soviets here) 😀 😀 😀 😀 :D, wait a minute…besides the MONEY, that ain’t too different in China and Taiwan too… 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 As to the airline during New Year, no it’s strictly politics on the reason of the flight…and we don’t want to Jepordize the Taiwanese security won’t we? For what? So people can get to where they want a few hours faster…ooooh…how inconvenient…think of MONEY think of MONEY…… 😀 😀
And, this constant usage of the word “racism” relects a certain inadequacy….that’s why they don’t take Al Sharpton or Jessy Jackson seriously, there’s a lot other black leaders where people from both sides respect and guess what they use the word “racism” only when it applies…humans with “mind” and “opinion” are hard to get along without even mentioning the racial differences…..
I have no idea what you are trying to say 😀
GoldenDragonWhat’s a “soldner”?
GoldenDragonOriginally posted by Vortex
Yes and there’s special flight set up by the Taiwanese government to ship them home during the Chinese New Years…ooh…very
That’s funny. The “special flight” needed to touch down in Hong Kong or a third country before heading to Taiwan. It’s not the Taiwanese government pushing this but the Taiwanese residents in China and the Taiwanese airlines.
The only thing “special” with the holiday flight is they don’t have transfer from one plane to another.
They wouldn’t need the “special flight” if they could fly directly from Shanghai to Taipei. What idiot would think that spending an extra three hours rerouting from Shanghai south to Hong Kong and then up north again to Taipei is an encouragement? 😀
“discouraging”…please, hostile nations have citizens living in each country as there were Russians in US and vice versa during the cold war.
Oh yes, there were 100s of 1000s of Americans working in Russia during the Cold War 😀
Wait, 3% of a 200 million US pop then would be about 5 million. So you believe that there were 5 million Americans working in Russia during the Cold War? That would be equivalent to the 500,000 Taiwanese in arch-enemy China today 😀
But you might have a point with the Russians in the US. Most of them were political refugees. I guess you are hinting that the Taiwanese Chinese on the mainland are there because of persecution from the DPP? 😀
speaking of cows…that’s exactly why you “milk it”… 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
Why not milk Russia? Too poor or backward? Too different? Too full of racist whites who simply don’t like slant eyes and slopes? 😀
I mean why not Russia? It’s not a sworn enemy of Taiwan and a so-called democracy too 😀
But, it is about MONEY…don’t try to avoid that fact. Nothing wrong and nothing “patriotic” about it….don’t try to manipulate that. :rolleyes:
Of course, it’s money.
Having the same language, looks and culture allow money to be made easier.
Unless you are hinting that when the next boom cycle hits South America, say a rebound in Argentina, there would be 500,000 Taiwanese moving over there. After all, there’s be money to be made.
And I am having a cow, numbnuts. Beef is my favorite 😀
GoldenDragonOriginally posted by crobato
The FC-1 is CAC’s poster child because the Chinese government still refused to release the full wraps of the J-10, and this has been very frustrating for the CAC people. By refusing to open the wraps, this has also sealed away any possibilities of CAC being able to export the J-10, which I’m sure CAC surely wants.Is this also due to being a political concession to Shenyang? Possible.
I think the J-10 being under wraps is due to to it being considered a strategic asset rather than as a concession to SAC.
All newly developed and introduced systems into the Chinese armed forces are. The article mentioned in the discussion I synopsized mentioned that the J-8F/G/H are under censor because of security issues but the J-8Ds are not.
Given the politics behind these issues, it is probably better off for the FC-1 NOT to be bought by the PLAAF, despite previous assertions that the FC-1 will not survive if it is not bought by the PLAAF. The reason for this is that the FC-1 will therefore not be subjected to the same kind of political wringing, requirements and constant respecification the J-11 and the J-10 was subjected.
It will certainly be better for us 😀 Otherwise, we won’t see anything of it until years later. There are diverging forces pulling on China’s air design and manufacturing firms (formerly state bureaus).
One, they feel need to gain revenue to prove that their continued existence is viable. Like US western companies, a government contract is necessary for a stable revenue stream but at the same time, government contracts and requirement come with handcuffs and a muzzle which stifles exports.
As you can see with Guizhou and Hongdu, they’re starting to design their aircraft in the light of export markets first (the L-15 and the FTC-2000), and it would be up for the PLAAF to decide if they want it or not.
Hongdu has a huge advantage with the K-8. They’ve exported already and probably has gained a reputation among the younger members of the PLAAF as a company of the future.
If you look at Chinese industry today, any connection with the old moribound state bureaus is not highly rated. Look at the constant drumbeat of youth in the FC-1 articles. The same thing has already happened in the ship building industry.
I’m not surprised taht Shenyang is not happy about the J-11 deal. It also provides part of an explanation why SAC don’t seem to be hot in pursuing an MKK license deal.
You probably already know from following the Chinese press and boards that there has been an undercurrent of unease with the J-11/Su-27 for a long time. Things like the J-10 are better in fly-offs or the computer codes need to be cracked.
If this deal did not go through, probably no big loss for SAC who probably have their share of potentially lucrative civilian aviation proposals often with foreign companies who want to get into the Chinese market.
SAC is fighting hard not to be seen as a dinosaur company. The AVIC I and II bosses are also being shown up by the shipbuilding industry so the pressure on performance would be harsher in the coming years.
CSSC has become the world’s third largest shipbuilder. The new Shanghai yard had just broken ground that would by 2010 give China the largest as well as one of the most advance facilities in the world.
The Chinese aviation industry has not come close in its respective field. But the ARJ-21 could change that. This thing should be slamdunk, a regional jet that should be a success based on domestic sales alone. So they have better not boot this.
GoldenDragonOriginally posted by Vortex
As to Taiwanese in Shanhai…please, one primary motivation….money :rolleyes: I don’t blame them though…you need to get paid for a living….milk the cow, milk the cow…
Not only Shanghai. There are bedroom communities in Guangzhou and Fujian that are composed entirely of Taiwanese families. The breadth of the Taiwanese and depth (as well as other overseas Chinese) movement to China is not local to a single place.
You are talking about a population of at least 500,000 that is rapidly growing. This out of a total Taiwanese population of 20 odd million.
And why milk a cow from a so-called hostile state? The current Taiwanese government discourages it and makes it as hard as possible to go to China.
But people do so anyways, taking the long circuitous routes to Hong Kong and Macau and then China. You don’t have up to 3% of your goddam population residing in a foreign state that your own government discourages you to invest in if it were only money.
You’d have an easier time investing in Brazil or Russia if you’re Taiwanese.
Yet I don’t see a half-million Taiwanese living in Moscow or Rio de Janiero.
A shared culture and language has at least a tiny part in it don’t you think?
GoldenDragonThe ARJ-21 will be as or more important than any military project to the survival of all those firms.
But the loudest Chinese project, civilian or military, is still the FC-1 as far as media coverage is concerned.
The heavy industries of the Army (usually known in the West when gathered under the auspices of Norinco or Poly Technologies) have been consolidated and pushed towards civilian production for quite some time now.
Consolidation of the old firms are inevitable. I think Guizhou is probably gone. Nanchang (Q-5) is part of HAIC already.
Harbin has a great future as the premiere helo company and has a massive civilian market as well as military.
Chengdu has passed Shenyang as far prestige is concerned which hadn’t sold a system overseas since the J-6.
The J-10 family, if the J-10B’s first flight is a true reality, gives Chengdu a huge leg up.
Shenyang doesn’t have a new base design to work with, unless an indigenous J-11 frame could be worked out from under contract. Even if it could they’ll still under a great disadvantage to CAC since they wouldn’t be able to export any J-11 derivative.
It is attempting to extend the J-8II airframe because it doesn’t have any other. It’ll be interesting to see if they can even market the J-8F/G/H.
They seem to have their hands badly tied. They are the “big brother” of the Chinese fighter bureaus and so get the politically important deals like the J-11.
But political importance can also bind because their products are considered state “secrets” and at the same time there are directives that they prove their worth on the market.
GoldenDragonI thought a recent story on Guangzhou was about a Chinese-made J-11 squadron in the 2nd Division, not SU-30. But I could be mistaken.
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