With the introduction of FC-1, the saga of J-7 of will definitely end.

The J-7 is still selling with exports to Nigeria and Zimbabwe just in recent months.

I think it will be sold in parallel with the FC-1 until the J-7 line is finally closed down. The price is simply too good and the new J-7PG/G variant has gained some pretty good press as a plane equalling the F-16 in agility if not mission.

Is it possible to make some *low-cost* modifications to J-7 (the latest version with double-delta wing) to keep it viable for air-to-air roles.

The two most glaring weakness of this aircraft are range and radar. To remedy these issues, is it possible to

1. Increase the fuel capacity (by 20 to 30 percent) by either increasing the length of main fuselage, or using MiG-21 bis style fuel tank (but without effecting handling of the aircraft)

2. Increasing the diameter of the nose to house an antenna with approx. 50 km detection range without resorting to expensive receiver modifications.

Finally strengthening the hard-ponints so that two SD-10 class missiles can be carried in addition to two lower weight/size missiles.

As Crobato said, what you described is the J-7MF. The J-7MF was designed as a bacup to the FC-1. With three flying prototypes of the FC-1, there is no chance for the MF to ever be made.

It’s extremely convenient for people like him to forget that India did not have the rights to resell the aircraft’s .

Of course India didn’t. If you build an aircraft that is still owned by someone else then you can’t sell it. China doesn’t have that problem. Chinese aircraft are made in China and China sells them. India simply didn’t and doesn’t have anything sellable.

We did not export aircraft’s because we did not have the rights to.

Obviously, since you depend on parts from the country that owns the rights. If you did sell, you wouldn’t be able to assemble your aircraft anymore when you’re embargoed.

Chinese aircraft like the J-7 or Y-12 and any of the dozen or so export models made in China are owned by China. No embargo can stop the J-7 from being produced because all the parts are made in China.

Gee,I guess why ? That must automatically mean that the Chinese Xeroxed Z-9’s are better :rolleyes:

🙂 Licensed built, the Z-9 is one of those aircraft where China created as a joint venture with EuroCopter. If China “xeroxed” it, Eurocopter wouldn’t be continuing with five other projects in China.

And it has sold and will sel more in the futurel, unlike the Dhruv. Unlike the Dhruv, the Z-9 fleet won’t be grounded because of a foreign part.

Yeah ,This is the same guy who in post number 42 brought up the whole communist VS Free state argument, and he talks about sticking to topic :rolleyes:

Actually, post 42 was addressed to Flogger who brought up economics. He was making the excuse that India was behind because it was much poorer. For once, I actually agree with him.

My first post was actually to a fellow Chinese, TinWing, stating in no uncertain terms that his thread is nothing but a flamebait since there is no comparison between India and China. There is no connection and no relevancy between the two of them.

He also brings up his economy related posts where , oh poor India is so poor, and the mighty Chinese are so much more richer,while the Chinese are bound to progress, the Indians will stay in the same place

Correct. If you want to bring up “dictatorship” and “communist propaganda” and all that BS then you better be able to answer why a “free” country like India is so much poorer than a “dictatorship” like China.

I sincerely hope the attitude displayed by GD is not one that of the mainland Chinese.

Actually, my attitude is that of a Chinese, mainland or otherwise. I’m as proud of Taiwan and Hong Kong as I’m of China.

Face it. For too long, Indians here were able to get away with these idiotic insults like “drones” and “clones” and “communist propagandists” because many of the Chinese here simply ignored it.

I find it distasteful that a people who have nothing to crow about not only insults the Chinese but also Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans as “tinpot dictatorships” and “incompetents” just because they buy Chinese aircraft.

Actually, I find that even more disturbing. I can partially understand the hatred of China because of jealousy and misplaced rivalry. But insulting people just because they bought Chinese aircraft is indicative of deep and bizarre hatred. Hating not only your (imagined) rival but also all of his friends :rolleyes:

Any comment that I may have made of him, please do not think I think the same of all Chinese, I sincerely respect the Chinese, and I do understand people like GD exist on both sides.

Now where were you when your friends were calling us “drones” and “clones” and using stupid little insults like “Oracle” for Pakistanis :rolleyes:

You want a fresh start? Keep politics out of it. Talk aviation. If I show you that China has out-exported India in aircraft, don’t come back with stupid politcal remarks like “dicatorship” and “clone.” Because I’ll point out that China is a trading nation with FAR, FAR more trade ties to the world than India and if China had violated IP laws on its aircraft, it would be brought before the WTO.

And don’t insult Pakistan, Zimbabwe, Sir Lanka and other buyers just because they bought Chinese. If you do that, then you better answer what makes India better than them when Indians are among the poorest and most desperate peoples in the world.

The picture is genuine.I took it myself.End of January 2005.

Thanks for the pictures! Very nice shots.

yumpin yimminy

Democracy and China:
Some of those criticizing China often criticize it’s lack of democracy and it’s history of crushing freedom, etc. I think those interested in China will acknowledge that China has gone through ALOT of changes in leadership since it’s foundation as the PRC.. more so than any differing changes between the Democrat and Republican leadership in the US.

Most Chinese know that China could do better with a freer system. The problem in these threads is that the Indians are using a Western stereotype of blind “oppressed drones” as an insult to the Chinese.

What is stupid about this tactic is that Indian “freedom” is totally unlike Western freedom. Where in India, freedom leads to poverty and short lives, in the West and East Asia, freedom leads to extreme wealth and longevity. It is obvious that being “free” in India has a VERY different meaning than being free in the West or being free in China.

Democracy doesn’t guarantee wealth, it only guarantees rights. however people have shown that they prioritize wealth and well being over some other rights such as free speech.

Democracy is actually an incorrect term. Republicanism is often confused for “democracy” when we look at the US or most of Westen Euope.

A better term is Western-based free society.

Free nations ALWAYS do better than nations where the vast majority of people are oppressed. Why? Because you can’t create wealth under oppression. This is why Taiwan is much richer than China and the US was much richer than the USSR.

India for some reason is much poorer than China which would indicate that its people are far more oppressed or simply less capable. By all rights, India with its years of freedom and a solid set of British laws should be as rich as Hong Kong or Singapore. But it’s not.

If Indians insist on using “dictatorship” as a bludgeon in every discussion about China then they should answer why as a “free” country they are so full of poverty that is out of character with every other free nation in the world.

China, for the most part, has had to develop things on their own with Russia, French and the US limiting their sales between the 70s-90s.. which helped allow them to look inwards for designs.. India has always had freer access to weapons, and thus, wasn’t forced like China, to look domestically.

China was not only limited by outside embargoes, it was handicapped by its self-inflicted disasters like the Cultural Revolution from an inefficient communist government.

But still, even under such burdens, it ended up not just manufacturing aircraft under embargo but exporting them by the hundreds as well.

The fact is China’s aerospace industry is like its shipbuilding industry. As it westernizes, the more efficient it will get. It went from a communist style dinosaur to currently the world’s third largest and fastest growing shipmaker.

China was already exporting planes when it was backward power during the Cultural Revolution. It will export even more in the future as it westernizes and approaches the standard of Hong Kong and Taiwan.

Berlusconi, thanks for your comments.

The funny thing is that it usually goes on this pattern, Indians quite naivisly boast about their military equipment and chinese side just flips.

Actually, it’s more to do with Indians insulting Chinese people about “dictators” when Indians suffer far more poverty and live much shorter and more brutish lives than Chinese.

If they stuck to aviation, there would be less flaming but also less talk period because there is simply no comparison.

1) The J-10 flies in regimental colors and there are scores if not a hundred single seaters flying versus 4 single-seat prototypes of the LCA. Are you kidding me? A non-comparison if there ever was one.

What is the main source of this supposed 100+ J-10 in service? I’ve heard lots of rumours about it and asked many times, but still nothing covincing hasen’t shown out…Can someone really proof this?

One, I don’t say there are 100+ but instead said there are at least scores of the J-10.

You can check by not even looking at Chinese sources. Check Russia’s records if you are so prejudiced against any Chinese sources. Fifty-four AL-31FNs (which can only be used by the J-10) were delivered in the first batch since 2002. Salyut reported in 2004 that China had concluded an order of 250 more AL-31FNs beyond the original 54. In 2005, there was a buy of a further 100 AL-31FN-M1 with TVC.

At any rate, the numbers of armed J-10s are vastly larger than the four LCA prototypes whether we are talking 20, 50 or 100. But we know that China had ordered engines in the hundreds. An attempt to compare the numbers is pathetic to say the least.

Maybe we should put up a picture thread and post all the different unique J-10s and LCAs with individual bort numbers. The list of LCAs would be pretty short.

Is there any other pics about the J-10B than those afully-too-much photshopping-smelling ones posted in various internet forums?

:rolleyes: If you look for photoshops then you’ll find them. I’m talking about the photos that have appeared in both Air Forces Monthly and Jane’s (associated with stories that the J-10B is near production.) Look at the photo in the attachment. If you think AFM printed a photoshop, take it up with them.

So have china sold any warplanes to non-thirdwolrd country?

:rolleyes: Now what difference does that make? A customer is a customer. India doesn’t have any customers so you can’t even get to the point of comparing what kind of customers India has vis-a-vis China.

A third world customer (or in China’s case, tens of third world customers) certainly beats no customer from India (or maybe half a customer, I think India gave a Dhruv to Nepal who in turn was trying to negotiate for Z-9s.)

BTW, profit comes in the form of money for those who can pay and political/economic payback in those who can’t. The F-7Ns to Nigeria will result in Chinese access to the oil fields for example.

Aside from K-8, is there any truly indegenious warplane exported?

Y-5, Y-7, Y-8. Y-12, H-5, H-6, J-6, J-7, JJ-5, JJ-6, JJ-7, K-8, CJ6A, Z-5, Z-9. How could China sell them if someone else owns them? :rolleyes:

Try using some logic.

Lun (1987)
КМ“Caspian Monster” (1967)
Orlyonok(1974)
SM-2 (1962)

Ground effect craft are not technically planes. Airplanes work on the principle of air pressure due to differential of air flowing above and below the lifting surfaces.

In ground effects craft (including the Ekranaplans listed above and other vehicles such as hovercraft), lift is generated by pressure from air trapped between the craft and the water (or ground) surface. The principles are very different.

The funny thing is, we don’t condemn all authoritarianism, and yet we don’t praise all democracy either.

India was a “democracy” that was allied with the USSR. So the hypocrites there ran around praising a commie state that had several million megatons pointed at the world’s democracies :rolleyes:

Were India any less irrelevant, the West would have been angry at such betrayal. But no one cares because India had no impact on the Cold War either way.

But it still comes down to the fact that while nations with the advantages of “freedom” (that India supposedly has) are far more developed and far richer than any communist state like China, India is poorer. Why is the case like West Germany compared to East Germany and South Korea compared to North Korea not applicable to India and China? Why is it turned upside down in this case?

Only in India, is freedom so poorly exploited that it is not only massively poorer than any other proper democratic state like Taiwan but poorer than even China, a communist state that still restricts loans and financing for private firms and has a crippled stock market.

The Chinese population aspire to be free but certainly not “free” like India which is even poorer than the “oppressed” Chinese.

Oppressed peoples are ALWAYS poorer than free people. Yet, India is three times poorer than China and 60 times poorer than other free Asian nations like Korea and Taiwan.

Why is that? Why should a free nation like India be so desperately poor? Does its people freely chose poverty like the yogis who wander naked and poor out of free will? Are they simply incompetent and freedom doesn’t help? Or, more realistically, is it not really so “free” because most of its one billion people are born into poverty and stay in squalor because it is dictated by caste?

China is poorer and less developed compared to Taiwan and Hong Kong because of “dictatorship” as you Indians like to put it.

But explain to me why India as a “free” nation can be so poor, undeveloped and malnourished that it is lapped thrice over on the development racetrack by a communist nation?

Why can’t a free nation export a plane or have less babies dying at birth than a dictatorship full of “oppressed” people?

If Indians can’t answer this question, they should not bring up Chinese “dictatorship” as an argument since the extreme poverty of Indians when compared to the Chinese marks India as suffering from an even worse tyranny.