SpudmanWPThe first Italian F-35 coming to the US in 2014 does not mean that over 300+ International F-35s are going to sit around a US base waiting for IOC by 2018.
“Leveraging our capability at Williamtown will reduce the transition risk and cost of introducing the F-35 aircraft into service in Australia from 2018.”
Here is an example where Australia plans on declaring an F-35 squadron in Australia by 2018.
This means that the F-35s will have to have been in country long before IOC is declared.
Another example of pre IOC F-35 shipment overseas.
The first F-35 is expected to arrive in Israel in 2015, but Israeli pilots will be able to start training on it in the U.S. in 2014.
SpudmanWPFunny that, European F-16 & Gripen operators have not been loosing F-16s at a rate of three per year.
Hey, maybe all the birds are over in Canada 😉
SpudmanWPSince the Japanese F-35s will roll off the line in 2017 and LM has said that it could meed the 2016 delivery date for the first F-35s for Korea, I’ll say that if they REALLY wanted to, they could send any F-35 they wanted to to RIAT (not likely).
There is this too:
With more than 200 F-35s estimated to be delivered by 2016 to ten countries
SpudmanWPhttp://www.airtattoo.com/airshow/aircraft/invited-countries
Traditionally, Air Tattoo promotional posters feature aircraft that reflect our ambitions for the following summer. Whilst we are making every effort to secure an F-35 ‘Lightning II’ (featured on the 2013 poster) for RAF Fairford we have received no indication at present that an aircraft will be with us.
SpudmanWPLet’s see the score so far…..
1. F-35 can’t Supercruise.. and then it does
2. F-35 can’t go above 20 AoA… and then it demonstrates 50 AoA
3. F-35 is not LO… and then it exceeds spec
4. F-35 can’t go beyond m1… and then it hits m1.66
5. F-35 is not maneuverable… and then it hits 9.9g
6. EODAS is short range only… and then it tracks a rocket launch from over 800 miles away
7. The helmet problems cannot be fixed… and then they are
8. F-35 can’t catch the wire… and then it does
etc, etc, etc
I can understand your skepticism, but considering they have been tracking EODAS hits for over a decade, have been using the AMRAAM in the F-22 for many years, and know exactly how the AMRAAM turns, burns, and booms at multiple altitudes then Raytheon and LM should be able to tell you exactly what the AMRAAM is capable of.
The F-35 continues to meet & exceed technical specs (even with a few bumps in the road). Get used to it 😉
SpudmanWPIf that was the case, then why did Germany pull out of AIM-132 ASRAAM ?
You would have to ask them. Probably due to ASRAAM range over maneuverability, no datalink, etc.
LO platforms are always offensive and in need to deal with the SAM threat and related command at first
LO is a defensive feature. While it allows for a platform to approach closer, LO itself is defensive.
In the fifties and 60s, short range missiles were usually less maneuverable than their fighter targets. So they made missiles maneuverable , but then there was flares. So then they made them all-aspect and immune to flares, so now they have DIRCM.:)
You’re reinforcing my point. Making a fighter maneuverable beyond what the human can bare (9g) won’t help it’s survival. Energy & money is better spent on defensive measures (LO, flares, chaff, jamming, DIRCM, etc).
SpudmanWPI don’t think that in high g WVR fights the F-35 could shot Aim-120D over the shoulder from internal weapon bays. Even when sensor could track the bandit behind Lighting II , the missile has it’s own limitations , and couldn’t be lunch in high -g , high AoA situation to the target behind lunching platform.
An you know this how?
The F-35 is designed to fire the AMRAAM at up to m1.6, at a max of 9gs (not necessarily at the same time as data has not been released), and eject with a force greater than 25 fps. This is already released pubic info.
Nothing has yet to be released about any AoA limits but that should not play any part since high AoA is generally at low speed.
Considering that the last two AMRAAM versions (C7 and D) have specific HOBS improvements and the F-35/EODAS/AMRAAM combo was specifically designed for WVR, it’s not going to be an issue.
Heavy and less maneuverabe AIM-120 will have much more trouble than this missile ( 40g limit vs 60g limit , TVC vs no TVC). Maybe this is future LM concept for NG AAM , and not for first F-35 blocks.
9x can only achieve it’s high g limit for a short time while the motor burns (via TVC). The AMRAAM can maintain it’s g load (and achieve a higher speed) for a longer time thanks to a larger motor.
LM even didn’t test F-35 with AMRAAM in this kind of situation
LM, the DoD, and Partner nations have extensively tested this function in simulation by using known values for the F-35, AMRAAM, EODAS, and enemy fighter capabilities.
Probably the F-35 will do WVR with two AIM-9X blk II under wing station with conjuction of HMD in its early stage , and probably fighting like any other fighter in this arena – catch your enemy on HMD , than fire short range AAM in best possible position to achieve kill ( no way over the shoulder shot ).
You seem to be having a problem understanding how the F-35 will use HMD. It is not the primary means of targeting WVR fighters. That is the job of EODAS. Taking the time to try and designate a target with HMD is a waste since the computer already has a track. btw, 9X is also capable of an over-the-shoulder shot, just with less range than the AMRAAM.
SpudmanWPYou cannot outmaneuver a modern WVR missile. Your only chance of survival is not to get shot at or kill the other guy first.
This is the point of the F-35 & EODAS as it provides first shot capability while making detection harder.
SpudmanWPTwo different categories, Offensive and Defensive.
An LO platform is primarily Defensive (it keeps you from being detected) while new Weapons are obviously Offensive.
The reason why the US & it’s Partners, Russia, India, and China are going to LO platforms is that detection & weapon systems are quickly coming to the point of assured destruction, especially in WVR.
Having an LO platform allows you to sever the “kill chain” by severely reducing the detection range of the enemy and thereby allowing you to use your weapons first.
btw, the US will not have an All-VLO force till after the F-15s & F/A-18Es are gone in some future (post F-35) program. We will also have a lot of F-16s and A-10s for a very long time.
SpudmanWPMig-21 with R-73 < Mig-29 with R-73 because maneuverability is still needed to get into a firing position.
“Aim-120D = Ultimate WVR”: Far from it since it only has one seeker mode (easier to defeat), and does not have TVC .
Yes I know what I just sad about TVC. It’s not needed but it can make it better.
That being said, an Aim-120D combined with a sensor system that allows the WVR shot to be taken “at will” vs a HOBS missile where the pilot still needs to maneuver in order to take a shot does mean the -120D has a much better chance of taking the first shot and claiming the first kill vs a traditional HOBS WVR missile in these conditions.
As I said before, it’s easier to develop new weapons that develop a new fighter. We can already see 4 new missiles that are in the concept or development phase for US fighters (T3, NGM, Aim-9 replacement, and CUDA).
SpudmanWPHistory and recent development would disagree with you. The whole point of HOBS and HMS was to take an existing WVR missile and and allow it to launch against a target that is not in it’s forward arch. The key to HOBS is to give the missile a few extra precious seconds in order to get the first shot / first kill.
The marriage of the F-35 and the AIM-120D takes this to the next level by detecting/tracking/engaging a WVR threat at the earliest possible moment and (by using a BVR missile in WVR) adding a lot of fuel to make up for any lost ground if the u-turn needs to be made.
Before you say “it does not have TVC”, neither does ASRAAM (which is also missing a datalink) and it is a WVR HOBS missile.
btw, your whole post about missile doing HOBS and linking a file that is about BVR are mutually exclusive to each other. Nobody is talking about a HOBS BVR shot.
SpudmanWPIt’s easier to create a weapon that has higher thrust & maneuverability to handle a u-turn (with enough fuel left over to prosecute a WVR kill) than it is to perfect a plane that can point it’s nose at will. This it the impetus behind the AIM-120D (& follow-on NGW/T3/JDARDM) & F-35 (EODAS) combo.
SpudmanWPhttp://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123327144
11/20/2012 – EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (AFNS) — The Joint Strike Fighter began the integration phase of weapons testing Oct. 26, when the F-35A Conventional Takeoff and Landing aircraft successfully completed the first in-flight test with an AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile.
It was the first time a weapon communicated with the aircraft during flight using a data link.
Starting in February and continuing through the end of April, the team is anticipating releasing roughly two weapons per week, said Cregier.
Much More at the jump
btw, That is 20-24 weapon drops before the end of April 2013.
SpudmanWPhttp://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123327144
11/20/2012 – EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (AFNS) — The Joint Strike Fighter began the integration phase of weapons testing Oct. 26, when the F-35A Conventional Takeoff and Landing aircraft successfully completed the first in-flight test with an AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile.
It was the first time a weapon communicated with the aircraft during flight using a data link.
Starting in February and continuing through the end of April, the team is anticipating releasing roughly two weapons per week, said Cregier.
Much More at the jump
btw, That is 20-24 weapon drops before the end of April 2013.
SpudmanWPControllability at 50 is right there in the presser
F-35A test aircraft are limited to AOAs of 20 degrees until their controllability is proven at a higher AOA limit of 50 degrees.
In other words, they are designed to be controllable up to 50 AoA.
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