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santi

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Viewing 12 posts - 76 through 87 (of 87 total)
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  • in reply to: Aussie news, nothing much. #2078258
    santi
    Participant

    I can attest that the design that the RAN is working on with Gibbs and Cox and Bath Iron Works is a sister to the USN Arleigh Burkes. If you parked them alongside a USN DDG51 Flight 2, the only major differences would be the paint colour and the fact that the RAN ones will be slightly longer.

    Well, if finally what is getting the RAN is a “modernised Burke”, even longer than a Flight IIA, we must admit that the competition hadn´t much sense. A Burke is obviously a vessel in a higher division than a F100 or F124. A Kongo, KDX-III or something like that would be in that case the logical competitors in the 9-10.000 t category and not 6.000 t vessels more or less stretched.
    Of course, bad thing if a 9000 t Burke hasn´t a seakeeping at least slightly better than a 6.000 t F-100.

    Regards.

    in reply to: Aussie news, nothing much. #2078576
    santi
    Participant

    The major changes are incorporating a lot of the USN’s “Smart Ship” program into the design to reduce crew numbers, a perpetual RAN issue.

    One thing that counted against the F100 design was that it has proved to be unstable in heavy weather, particularly with beam seas (too much weight up high, unavoidable really with the limitations of combining a 6000 tonne hull and the Aegis system)

    hummm, I think that F-100 hasn’t any serious problem concerning stability. They are based in north Atlantic (where sea is not exactly calm), exercise in south Atlantic were conducted time ago (UNITAS) and one is actually operating with an US Navy task force all around.
    Armada has abandoned/delayed her plans for a new class of frigates and prefers instead a couple more F-100, basically similar to the first 4 vessels. It not seems a logical movement if the design has “stability problems”, in fact Spanish Navy is very sensitive to anything concerning seakeeping.
    Of course 6.000 t are 6.000 t, but that is imposing limitations more in free room for additional hardware than in seakeeping.
    In any case, the design offered for Navantia to RAN was an “stretched F-100” (7.000 t), not the “regular F-100”, and Gibbs didn’t offer a Burke but a “lite Burke”.
    Concerning to the crew, the US Navy certainly has conducted programs to reduce it but at the moment a Burke needs 330 people and F-100 some 200… (and some 180 in F-105).
    Of course, I can admit that the Gibbs design would be better suited to the RAN needs, but not in base of “stability problems”.

    A nice trio:

    http://www.armada.mde.es/esp/Comunicacion/galeria/img/buques/buques2.jpg

    Regards

    in reply to: Aussie news, nothing much. #2081932
    santi
    Participant

    Well, like an spaniard I would be very happy if a F-100 derived wins the competition, but is fair play to accept the value of the others.
    Navantia, former Izar, former Bazan, has been working very hard over decades in order to get excellence in naval shipbuilding… but is a relatively newcomer in the export market, at least compared with Blohm & Voss or Gibbs.
    Navantia has obtain some success in the last years (light CV for Thai, AEGIS frigates for Norwegian, submarines for Chile and Malaysia 50-50 with DCN…), but ¿how many OHP’s, Burkes, or MEKO´s are sailing around the world? We must accept that from an industrial point of view yanks or germans are stronger.
    Of course F-100 is a superb design, with nearly a decade of developmet from the ashes of the ill-fated multinational NRF-90, through a conventional multipurpouse frigate of 4.500 t, then an AAW with APAR and finally and AEGIS 6.000 t vessel. Spanish navy officers and sailors are “shocked” with there new toy and the comparison with the “Knox-derived” Baleares or even the Santa Maria FFG´s is a world of difference.
    From an operational point of view, with 4’5-6 million $, the RAN could obtain up to 6 F-100, with minimum changes in the design, from 2010 onwards (even with a less ambitious upgrade of the Adelaide) but from an industrial (and political) point of view seems logical to preffer a “new generation vessel”. Because all three contenders, althought derived from existing designs, would be very different ships.

    Regards (and sorry for my poor english).

    in reply to: Aussie news, nothing much. #2082420
    santi
    Participant

    Well, in fact little is known on the designs presented to the AWD project. What we know are the former products of the respective competitors (F-100, F-124, Burke) and the AWD proposal will be a derivative of them.
    F-100 and Burke are very different ships and probably AWD will be medium way between both.
    If you have people and money, of course, Burke is better choice than F-100 to perform the AAW missions, at least in one per one basis.
    Spanish Navy haven’t enough money and people to operate 4 Burkes, but seems very pleased with her F-100 (a 5th vessel has been aproved and, may be, a 6th in the near term). The question is what will be better for RAN, an enlarged F-100 or a shrinked Burke?. Australian government has opted for the last one.
    The strong point, I think, of the spanish option (and, may be, of the german one) was that Navantia is well skilled playing with limited budget. In any case “value for money” is the main reason argued in favour of american design and Gibbs & Cox is, no doubt, one of the better naval designer in the world.

    in reply to: Aussie news, nothing much. #2082815
    santi
    Participant

    Yes. Nansen is the first of the class. She is now in test period and will be put into service with Royal Norwegian Navy late this year. The 4 others follow, one every year till 2009.

    in reply to: Australian LHD project #2082818
    santi
    Participant

    Yeah. Is curious, because Spanish Army has CH-47D and BPE is designed like the first vessel in the Armada to admit in a regular basis Army hardware.
    I suppose that is a compromise. 27.000 t seems a lot but one of the requirements is to replace, when needed (refit, repair), the PdA like carrier vessel, althought maintaining the capability two swing quickly to LHD missions. At least some Chinooks can be carried in the flight deck.

    Regards

    in reply to: Aussie news, nothing much. #2082895
    santi
    Participant

    Well, I think that Navantia was offering two different designs: one similar to basic F-100 (low risk option) and another one more customized to the Australian Navy requirements (7.000 t vs 6.000, 64 cells vs 48, 2 helos vs 1, etc.).
    Like in the case of G&C or B&V, the detailed info to the public was nearly inexistent and now that seems the american design is the winner probably anything more will be known on “Super F-100”.

    The two “baby AEGIS” from Navantia:

    Nansen (F-310):
    http://www.revistanaval.com/imaxes/20050627_f310_02.jpg

    Juan de Borbon (F-102):
    http://www.revistanaval.com/imaxes/20041104_01.jpg

    in reply to: Australian LHD project #2082901
    santi
    Participant

    Sorry, this is the correct link:

    BPE & PdA

    in reply to: Australian LHD project #2082927
    santi
    Participant

    The most complete information actually on the web about BPE/SPS is that of the Spanish Armada site, posted by JGR.

    Here and artist view of BPE sailing alongside Príncipe de Asturias light carrier:

    http://www.revistanaval.com/txemaprada/imagenes/wallpapers/LHD1-R1.jpg

    in reply to: Pictures of the new singapore frigate (formidable class) #2085474
    santi
    Participant

    The SPY-1K was developed for vessels in the 3.000 t range or even less. Of course his performance are far from the SPY-1D, but in the same degree, I suppose, that the Herakles compared with de Arabel/S1850 combination.
    At this moment, the only aplication that I know for the SPY-1K is the spanish-american AFCON Corvette design (2.600 t), that was considered some time ago by the Armada and offered to Israel.

    http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/rgc/AFCON_4.jpg

    in reply to: Why large deck structures #2043670
    santi
    Participant

    Well, Arleigh Burkes already look a lot better than Ticonderogas, from the perspective of height and such. IIRC, F100 employs a different type SPY than Arleigh Burke, so perhaps it is smaller and lighter, allowing for a reduced superstructure relative to Arleigh Burke.

    AEGIS version in F-100 is SPY-1D (same that Burkes). May be last Burkes have a baseline more recent than F-100 (SPY-1D Baseline 4-5 in spanish vessels), but otherwise are identical to that in Burkes. Antennas are of same size and are at the same level. The difference is that the bridge in F-100 is under AEGIS…
    Nansen has a smaller versíon SPY-1F.

    santi
    Participant

    “Maritime Action Ship” (BAM in Spanish) will be an OPV of aproximately 2.500 t, 22-23 n, NH-90/SH-60 capable, 1 76 mm gun an a couple of MG. Wont be a “Combat ship”.
    The project is building up to 12 for patrol duties, in order to replace diferent kinds of smaller patrol boats in spanish service, and 4 more miscellaneous (1 dive support vessel, 1 signal collection and 2 oceanographics) in a modular basis.
    The substitutes of the 5 Baleares are the 4 (now 5 and probably 6) F-100.

    Regards

Viewing 12 posts - 76 through 87 (of 87 total)