This board seems to re-hash the same arguments over and over. Over G doesn’t seem to understand stealth and the closest to understanding is Sign since he realises that its an evolving technology which is still in its infancy. The way I see stealth evolving is away from geometric, typified by the F-117 and more and more towards electronic. I don’t mean ECM where the signal is drowned in a sea of noise, but towards active cancellation. The theory is simple; a computer analyses ALL incoming radiation and emits an inverse wave therby creating destructive interference and zero reflected signal. This is still science fiction, mind you, but at the rate electronics are advancing, eventually a 747 could be made invisible to radar, and given fast enough processing and on-board lasers, even optically invisible. The point to remember is that it is a tool that is constantly evolving with technology and as defences are developed to make the current tool obsolete, the tool itself is developed further to increase its usefulness.

I don’t “understand” stealth i just understand physics and engineering.

Active cancellation is impossible BTW, because , before you could cancel an EM wave, you must first cancel it related electric field path, and you must know it before the wave is created, go on and try to figure what i try to mean, maybe you will learn something new…(hint: is basically the “destructive” EM interference in phased radars/systems in which no energy is actually involved)

Mechanical waves and EM waves are pretty different

You put 2 lasers 180º out of phase, each other, and you will find that the quantums do not magically vanish…what you get is just a interference pattern, that’s all.

Unless you are violating energy conservation…there are a lot of cool anti gravity web sites that could be interesting for you.

Russian estimates for the overall RCS value for the F-22/35 are around 0.5 m2, which is a good achievement, actually, they think (any engineer actually) the f117 has better RCS, with 0.1 m2, then again a good value, these are not peaks, but overall measures.

These are average values and can be compared with other average front rcs values (like the 15 sqm2 on the su-27), these are not peaks.

You must be kidding, the 22 has not the stealth level of the 117, just look how, for example, how the 117 exhausts are covered with coolers afterburners removed, lack of flares, faces orientation, etc, something the 22 does not have.

Ah the golf/marble, bee RCS, stuff…sure i gonna believe on that…

The problem is basically the facts how stealth really works, and the myth of how stealth “should” work.

I’m not claiming RCS reduction is not important, but when one state that is not the invisible thing that will decrease every system’s performance, and that actually it needs support to make it work well, then the discussion turns into a river of tears, about how biased the heretic is…

Oh well..

The Pakfa is not a homeland defender

But is the counter against the 35/22 in the international market.

The russian priority for “homeland defence” was/is always the SAM technology

There is not any frequency switching, or a complete logistic/technologic revolution in the russian defenses, russians are not concerned over the stealth issue, but they know the low RCS is important for a plane.

“Wasting money” was a bit crude word, since anyways the Pakfa is meant to produce money, ok they are not wasting money, but then, the pakfa is not a priority for the russian defense, but for russian business it is, is a very high priority.

What about this? http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1503943&postcount=234

Any info?

Because i expect the Russians to do something about it

Surprised they are actually doing nothing?

The only thing that could be a sign against the stealth tech was/is the introduction (limited) of that VHF AESA radar….but is that a stealth counter? or is just the natural evolution for more that 50 years developing such radars? 🙂

Oh and the PAKFA, which is the last priority for the russian defense, pretty last, if you compare it with the SAM technology, and is more a test for the russian industry to survive the arms market, than a great homeland defender.

For all these B2s, 117s, 22s, the russians seem pretty calm

Don’t confuse that with necessity though. When the first F-117s flew into Iraqi airspace, there was no ECM support. That would’ve tipped off their air defenses that something was up. Now once hostilities have started and you have non-stealthy aircraft in the mix, then ECM certainly doesn’t hurt the stealthy planes, as the noise floor is raised, making them even harder to pick out.

There was, 111’s were always escorting them (not escorting , but jamming the target radars, btw, 117s were never used against radars), i think even the 117 manual does state to always start missions with ecm support