over GSo do you really think that even with SILVE the diverse companies that are competing in the market against each other will send their data?
I would consider that posibility IF there is a new fighter project between all them, and there is a joint defence effort between the different goverments, but seems is not (and even in that case the different tech houses won’t br happy)
I would wait for a joint NATO excercise between both planes
over GKKM57P, we all know the advantages of AESA over PESA, the main one is the capacity to produce multiple beams, better modulation and the beam itself is more defined, etc..
The problem is that also the planes have a limited funcionability, for example, why you need to track 1000 targets, when you only have 4 missiles? you can do the searching of all them, but why you need to track all them ?
How practical is a plane that carry bombs, AA missiles (long range ones), anti ship missiles and other kind of ordenance at a single mission?
Yeah the AESA radar open a great multitarget performance and capacity, but sometimes :D…the airframe/mission cant match that capacity
over GAny data of the su-30’s operative costs?
Is interesting , when all the people was talking about the dead of the “small” figthers, (especially in russia), then here comes the indian contest 🙂
If the EF’s 3th batch is cancelled, well seems the EF will have troubles on the contest, i think is most likely the order will be a mix of mig-35’s and Rafales…damn indians, you want your damned AESA, there is your f*cking AESA 😀
Just hope the Rafales order will be significative, really what that plane needs are more powerful engines, the aerodymics are compromised between higher and low speed , not like the typhoon, which is more a road-runner, but i think for that is more practical for the IAF, but not falling in the draggy hornet concept, Rafale seems the best choice (even with out better engines)
over GFrom all these cases i will choice only the Malaysian case, anyone who can update me about the Ef-grippen-flanker contest, just quoting malaysian sources, not russian/british/US claims, the requirements, the performances, etc under the RMAF perspective, thanks
over GThe L band is not the IFF interrogator?, i wonder how powerful is
Also, your recent love affair with smilies is complicating things further:p:D:cool::diablo:
Come on….the live is a bit more spicy with smilies….i really dont have any problem with smilies, but im still trying to figure why Sens just recently has that love (or fetish :D), for smiles…come on Sens , tell us
Anyway, with the new rules from the mods , i predict very dark times on the forum….we should call the Carter Foundation (or whatever is called)….our Human Rights are in danger!
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I have seen the 35’s cockpit, it doesnt have any kind of mechanical horizont indicator…i still wonder if is a good idea, at least the typhoon has both digital and analogic/mechanic display, really i dislike a bit digital displays, light/reflections sometimes make a bit difficult to read the data. i wonder if the pilots dont have any problem with that
over GAnything radiating that much power is a huge beacon in the sky that can be detected at extremely long distances. But that power still doesn’t translate into sufficient range for the SU to detect the VLO F-22 before AIM-120s are launched using azimuth, elevation and range cues from ALR-94. Again, the F-22 design team didn’t spend their time pulling their collective peters as part of the $18B development program.
Now against Rafale, Typhoon and Gripen who only have RCS treatments against 8-18 GHz radars, Irbis is very effective.
1-Never ever put quantity of invested money as “success” degree..that is a subjetive argument, not saying the 22’s is not a success either
2-I dont understand why ppl are so feared by the power of the radar and call it a “beacon”, the philosophy of the irbis is to give you a huge volume of “tracking radiation” you have the su-35 “beacon”, yes, but with data link, that “beacon” is an AWACS,that plane most likely wont fight, and if is downed (which wont be as easy as an E-3) will be replaced by other su-35, the other 35’s will remain as semi active-radar “beacons”, that is the whole physosophy, because you cant down a plane trusting in the enemy “beacon” source, why?, because beacons can be turn off, the whole think there is to give
1-different/diverse aspect tracking detection against LO planes (using pasive detection)-denie aspect LO advantage
2-Leave planes on pasive mode, so to locate them you must use your radar
3-Share frequency and radar energy, to launch missiles on pasive mode (a one that works)
4-Share information to the network about signals from LO planes that are not received by the su-35/AWACS
Then you have some kind of “bistatic” network which can share missile guidance
Not saying that 1 su-35 vs 1 f-22 the sukhoi will be the winner, but things change when you add numbers, that is the philosophy behind
over G:D:diablo: Too bad it doesn’t work that way in practice. During the Alaska exercise in 2007, F/A-18s with ATFLIR pods and F-16s with Sniper pods couldn’t find F-22s and were “killed” easily. Both pods have A2A capability similar to Flanker IRST. You don’t spend $18+Billion on development and not include countermeasures for something as simple as an IRST equipped adversary.
You know… IR targets are not easy to pick…when your IR “eye” is below your nose and your target is at higher level that you, that is the reason why russian planes also use IR pods (instead to use software solutions) despite to have that IRST on their nose, the aperture to catch IR signal is narrow (because IR wave has a very short length), thats the reason why you need movable sensors located on different places
Also i wonder how many F-18/16s had these pods in the excersice, not many i guess
On other excercises F-16’s were caught with their pants down by EF’s and Grippens…the avionics, data link, and brute performance were the reason…as in the 22s excercises the main reason of the victory was the performance at height…against bad height performers as the teen figthers, no doubt the low RCS also played on the game, but height was a far more critical reason
I doubt the 22s would remain stealthy against a 21 kw radar flying at 18kms for 150-200 kms, because the aspect incidence of the wave (with 2 irbis/planes on paralele arrange with a distance of 20-50 kms, maybe you wont need 2 planes, or some especifically located on calculed return locations, you can even try different heights to denie RCS aspect advantage), yeah you can throw me that 0.0000000000000000000000000X RCS value, while the source test band is not given, airplane lovers love these figures, but serious engineers laugh about it.. or the nice claim that the next problem for stealthy planes is the moisture or water drops..god…
over GWow , almost 10 pages! , in 1 day?
Some funny funfacts
1-The art of sarcasm that traditionally was dealed very well by pro-rusky hardware members has been learned very well by pro-western members, maybe because these nice sukhoi videos actually resemble top-gun and other equally crappy western media trash (including that nice “official” su-35 computer “simulation” some years ago)..russians are learning
2-The inevitable degradation to oil prices and the GDP topic
3-The EW/ECM/ECCM/ECCCCCCM babbling…when hard data about these are pretty difficult to find, and even more difficult to confirm
4-A newborn myth…the su-35 supercruiser
5-The corporative claims should be taken as undeniable true!…The eurocanards sucks…no doubt….no wait the su-35 sucks…no wait…..
6-The recent Sens smilies interest 😉
7-The Arabia/Weapon dealers corruption adds something objetive to the discussion….
8-Nobody cares for the Rafale 😀
……or the Grippen
9- And beware with Sens! he’s the new internet’s SS-Stazi agent! (i missed that ! :D)
Flame my minions , flame!!
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Anyway, the su-35 has conventional measuring displays on the cockpit?, i see almost everything is digital, even the horizont…is that a good idea?
over GNot a great fan of their videos or albums…
But their concerts are interesting, and their music sounds actually different there
This one is actually a masterpiece…
over GNot a great fan of their videos or albums…
But their concerts are interesting, and their music sounds actually different there
This one is actually a masterpiece…
over GEF/Gripen/Rafale cant flee from Su-35.:p It is just superior range, acceleration, altitude and long range weopons.
And how so?, at least the EF has a supercruiser capacity, im sure it can outrun the su-35, while the 35 can keep better height while doing maneouvres.
I think the EF advantages are, better sustained speed, better inst. turn, while the Su has better agility in general (including at height)
From where comes your claim the su-35 has better acceleration?
over GGood guess. 😀
We keep in mind, that the Russians do claim the firing of two AAMs against a single target as one shooting. Two AAMs or SAMs bringing down a single target are a 100% kill-rate, which does even make some sense, the limited number of firing opportunities in mind. 😉
Out of dumb claims or misinterpretations, missiles will miss their target, is well known, but that goes for every missile on this world
over GKS-172 much?
That is a especial case, it does’nt count
All of the Europeans fighters are behind he said.
In which aspects, you know you are dealing with pilot claims?
over GSens everything have it practical limits, i doubt the RCS diference between the EF/Rafale/Su-35 is significant in aerial combat, especially when you consider there arent AAM with a range of 400 kms…
Agree the ECM/low RCS is a good combo, but really there is no way to solve that, only with more powerfull radars (as Irbis) and that goes for everybody, passive killing systems don’t work (well… IR does)
Dionis about radar seeker missiles, i dont see where is the big trouble, just shut down your radar for a while, or move your antenna (if you can)
The irbis give you some kind of figther/AWACS (i mean 400kms..are 400 kms) so you can use some su-35 on pasive mode while using your main su-35 as AWACS, the “fighter” su-35s should get the enemy signal earlier than the “su-35/AWACS”…they actually can attack completelly “stealthy”
The su-35s most likely wont use their own radars to attack the enemy, they will use the signals from their very well defended /back su-35/Awacsky (the signals returned from the targets), the planes that are ahead actually can see/track targets that the “awacs” cant see, remember you cant do that with a conventional awacs (tracking a target in such way)
over GBIO i still dont see TVCs on EFs, when they get them will be ok….but still dont see any, is not like electronics, in which you can add a pod, and problem solved
Schorsch, stop watching aero-shows, TVCs help you to maneouvre keeping height and position at altitude, altitude is the key on air combat
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