Draft Composite List for “Other Nationalities”

This is the list for all non British, French or German designed aircraft as it currently stands. Please note that I have not yet found the time to move the US list forward since editing in the comments on the previous draft. As ever, all comments and corrections gratefully received.

AUSTRO-HUNGARIAN DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

Aviatik Berg D.I

101.37 Vienna Technical Museum
101.40 Museum of Flight, Seattle

Aviatik C.I

C.227/16 Brussels Aviation Museum (incomplete)

Aviatik C.III

???? Narodowe Muzeum Lotnictw (Polish Aviation Museum), Krakow (incomplete)

Etrich Taube/Rumpler Taube

‘A108/14’/A118/13 Deutsches Technikmuseum, Berlin
???? Vienna Technical Museum (Technisches Museum)
???? Luftwaffenmuseum, Berlin
???? Flugmuseum Aviaticum, Wiener Neustadt (is this genuine?)
???? Deutsches Museum, Munich (is this genuine?)

Knoller C.II

119.15 Nerodni Tecnické Museum, Prague

Hansa-Brandenburg D1

28.68 Nerodni Tecnické Museum, Prague (fuselage only)

Hansa Brandenburg B.I

???? Budapest Aviation Museum

Lloyd Prototype

40.01 Budapest Transport Museum

Lohner L-1

L-127 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle

Phönix D.III

947 Flygvapenmuseum (Swedish Air Force Museum), Linköping

ITALIAN DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

Ansaldo A 1 “Balilla”

MM16553 Museo del Risorgimento e del comune di Bergamo (under restoration by GAVS in Turin)

Ansaldo SVA-5

11721 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle
11777 Museo Gianni Caproni, Trento
????? ?, Peru (rebuilt (poorly) following crash – how genuine is this?)

Ansaldo SVA-9

13148 Aeritalia

Ansaldo SVA-10

12736 Il Vittoriale degli Italiani, Gardone Riveria
13164 Museo Nacional de Aeronáutica, Argentina (existence to be confirmed)

Caproni Ca.3

1 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle

Caproni Ca.20

23174 Museum of Flight, Seattle (high degree of originality)

Caproni Ca.36

2378 Museo Aeronautica Caproni di Taliedo, on loan to NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio

Macchi M.7

945 Flygvapenmuseum (Swedish Air Force Museum), Linköping

MEXICAN DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

TNCA Type H

???? Mexican Air Force Collection

RUSSIAN DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

Anatra Anasalj

010.091 Nerodni Tecnické Museum, Prague

Grigorovich M-5

???? Turkish Air Force Museum, Izmar

Grigorowicz M-15

???? Narodowe Muzeum Lotnictw (Polish Aviation Museum), Krakow

SWEDISH DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

Thulin typ D

F1 Keski-Suomen Ilmailumuseo (Aviation Museum of Central Finland), Tikkakoski (partial replica based around original fuselage)

Thulin typ G

G 11-15 Under restoration at Flygvapenmuseum (Swedish Air Force Museum), Linköping

Thulin typ N

?? Svenska Tekniska Museet, Stockholm

US DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

Curtiss JN-4D Jenny

JN-4A
???? US Museum of Naval Aviation. Pensacola, Florida

JN-4C
C227 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe
C308 Pioneer Flight Museum, Kingsbury, Texas
C496 Historic Aircraft Restoration Museum, St. Louis
C1122 Skeeter Carlson, Spokane, Washington State (high degree of originality)
4048 Anthony Morozowsky, Zanesville, Ohio (serial number indicates a JN-4D?) [CHECK IF GENUINE]
10875 John Shue, York, Pennsylvania
39158 National Air Museum?
56618 ???? [CHECK IF GENUINE]
???? Reynolds-Alberta Museum, [CHECK IF GENUINE]
???? Cradle of Aviation Museum, Garden City, New York State (barn find restoration)

JN-4D
D-51 Yanks Air Museum, Chino, California (displayed with canvas stripped) – have two others?
278 Sold to??
396 San Diego Aerospace Museum
400??? James Smith, Fortine, Montana
450 Kenneth Hyde, on loan to Virginia Aviation Museum, Richmond, Virginia
490 Sold to?? [CHECK IF GENUINE]
1321 Franklin Root, Staunton, Virginia
2421 Chicago Museum of Science & Industry (is this genuine or replica?)
2525 owner unknown, Indiana
2844 ????
3233 ????
3229 Pioneer Flight Museum, Kingsbury, Texas [CHECK IF GENUINE]
3712 Flying Heritage Collection, Arlington, Washington State
3919 Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, New York State (composite aircraft)
3973 John Johnson, Edmonton, Alberta
4983 NASM, Washington Dulles
5002 Hill Aerospace Museum, Utah (rebuilt)
5086 Glenn H Curtiss Museum, Hammondsport, New York (under restoration)
5360 Kermit Weeks, Polk City, Florida (very original but badly damaged)
5361 Kenneth Hyde, Warrenton, Virginia
6062 Paul Dougherty, Bethel, Pennsylvania (under restoration at Golden Age Air Museum?)
8047 Paul Dougherty, Bethel, Pennsylvania (under restoration at Golden Age Air Museum?)
33779 Kenneth Hyde, Warrenton, Virginia
34091 Yanks Air Museum, Chino, California?
34094 Owls Head Transportation Museum, Maine
???? Museum of Flight, Seattle (little original material remaining)
???? US Army Center for Military History, on loan to College Park Aviation Museum, College Park, Maryland (barn find restoration)

JN-4H
8644 Frank Schelling, Schellville, California

Yet to classify:
A996 ??? [CHECK IF GENUINE]
???? ex-Gene Frank (kits of parts)
???? Aero Vintage Ltd, currently at AJD Engineering, Sudbury
???? Hiller Aviation Museum, San Carlos, California
???? Museum of Flying, Santa Monica, California

Curtiss NC-4

A2294 NASM, on loan to US Museum of Naval Aviation. Pensacola, Florida

Curtiss N-9H

???? NASM, Washington Dulles

LWF Model F Tractor

4 Nerodni Tecnické Museum, Prague

Packard Lepere Lusac

42133 NMUSAF, Dayton Ohio

Standard J1

581 Owls Head Transportation Museum, Maine
1000 James Hammond, Yellow Springs, Ohio
1141 NMUSAF, Dayton Ohio
1582 Kermit Weeks, Polk City Florida (composite of two aircraft)
1598 ????
2969 Michael Cilurso, Schnecksville, Pennsylvania (assembled from original components – period kit)
4598 Pioneer Flight Museum, Kingsbury, Texas
???? NMUSAF, Dayton Ohio (incomplete)
???? Henry Ford Museum, on loan to Glenn H Curtiss Museum, Hammondsport, New York
???? Historic Aircraft Restoration Museum, St. Louis

Lincoln Standard HS
N1375 NASM, Washington Dulles

Standard E1

49128 Kermit Weeks, Polk City Florida
???? Virginia Aviation Museum, Richmond, Virginia

Thomas-Morse S4 Scout

S4B
4328 Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, New York State

S4C
38923 Pioneer Flight Museum, Kingsbury, Texas
38944 NMUSAF, Dayton Ohio
???? Cradle of Aviation Museum, Garden City, New York State
38898 Skeeter Carlson, Spokane, Washington State

Jeepman – are we sure that the Moraine-Saulnier AI in Uruguay is still around? I can find no mention of it in the exhibits list produced by the Museo Aeronautico’s friends group and I note that they had a major fire in 1998 that destroyed a lot of their most important exhibits…. I do note that a Blériot XI is listed – do we know if this is “the real McCoy”?

There another SVA-5 in Peru I think

Well done Jeepman – have found this on the web: http://www.geocities.com/kwii62/sva.htm. Although judging by the look of the undercarriage (not to mention the apparent lack of rigging) the restoration looks “interesting” to say the least. Although judging by the look of the plane on the linked page http://www.geocities.com/kwii62/cusco.htm after Alejandro Velasco Astete killed himself against the wall at the end of the landing strip it has clearly been heavily rebuilt.

So we now have this for our Italian list:

Ansaldo A 1 “Balilla”

MM16553 Museo del Risorgimento e del comune di Bergamo (under restoration by GAVS in Turin)

Ansaldo SVA-5

11721 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle
11777 Museo Gianni Caproni, Trento
????? ?, Peru

Ansaldo SVA-10

12736 Il Vittoriale degli Italiani, Gardone Riveria

Caproni Ca.3

1 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle

Caproni Ca.20

23174 Museum of Flight, Seattle (high degree of originality)

Caproni Ca.36

2378 Museo Aeronautica Caproni di Taliedo, on loan to NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio

Italian Aircraft

Thanks everyone for their excellent efforts over the past few days, which I have now incorporated into the master list, and will be moving it forward further over the coming days

I am far too tired to do much tonight (when we do the move out of this house into our final house at the end of the month we worked out that it will be our sixth move in two and a half years and will finally have just the one house with everything in it (don’t ask!) – and no it does not get any easier each time! I have vowed never to move house again). However, to keep things bubbling along, here is the starter Itallian list that I prepared earlier:

Ansaldo SVA-5

11720 ???, Genoa
11721 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle
11777 Museo Gianni Caproni, Trento

Caproni Ca.3

1 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle

Caproni Ca.20

23174 Museum of Flight, Seattle (high degree of originality)

Caproni Ca.36

2378 Museo Aeronautica Caproni di Taliedo, on loan to NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio

Does anyone on the forum speak or write Japanese, or know anyone who does? I have had no luck emailing the JASDF about the Farman S.11 that Jeepman thought that they might have – if so we need confirmation of existance, its serial number and present location…

Bleriot XIs

This is my best effort at fully including the surviving Bleriot XIs to the list, I’m sure it needs quite a lot of improvement:

Blériot XI

c/n 14 Shuttleworth Collection, Old Warden
c/n 56 Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, New York State (rebuilt from partial fuselage remains)
c/n 153 On loan to Cradle of Aviation Museum, Garden City, New York State
c/n 164 RAFM Hendon
c/n 246 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle
c/n 686 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
???? NASM, Smithsonian, Washington D.C
???? Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, New York State (American Aeroplane Supply House built)
???? NMUSAF, Dayton Ohio (privately built in period from factory drawings)
???? Brussels Aviation Museum (constructed around original pair of wings only)
???? US Army Aviation Museum, Fort Rucker, Alabama
???? Museo del Aire, Madrid (Vilanova built)
???? Verkehrshaus, Lucerne (is this genuine?)
???? Deutsches Museum, Munich (is this genuine?)
n/a Svenska Tekniska Museet (midified Nyrop built version)

Over to you gents…

Updated Lists

As promised the lastest British, French & German lists follow. Thanks to everybody for their efforts – keep it up lads! As a taster I have also included the first bit of the “everyone else list”, covering Austro-Hungary (still very much a work in progress, I’m afraid).

BRITISH DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

DH4

N489 NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio (composite of two aircraft)
652 The Aviation Heritage Center, Omaka, Blenheim , New Zealand
N3258 Evergreen Museum, McMinnville, Oregon (loaned from MofF Seattle)
21959 National Air & Space Museum, US
???? National Museum of the US Marine Corps, Quantico, Virginia (part original)
???? Kermit Weeks – 4 No????
???? San Diego Air and Space Museum
???? Peter Jackson

Note – DH4s still to be disaggregated by type

DH9

DH9
F1258 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris (high degree of originality)
F1287 Canberra, ACT, Australia
D5649 Aero-Vintage Ltd, St Leonards-on-Sea for IWM
E8894 Aero-Vintage Ltd, St Leonards-on-Sea for HAC Duxford
????? Fort Bikaner, India
????? South Africa Museum of Military History???

DH9A
F1010 RAFM Hendon (rebuilt from partial remains)

Avro 504

ex-504J
B3182 Weeks Air Museum, Miami

504K
E448 Keski-Suomen Ilmailumuseo (Aviation Museum of Central Finland), Tikkakoski
‘E449’ RAFM Hendon
H2453 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe
H2174 Australian War Museum, Canberra
‘H2311’ Museum of Science and Industry, Manchester
H5199 Shuttleworth Collection, Old Warden
D7560 Science Museum, London
D8971 RCAF, CFB Borden
D9029 NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio
‘ZK-ACU’ Stuart Tantrum, Blenheim, New Zealand
????? Norwegian Aviation Centre, Bødo

BAT F.K.23 Bantam Mk.1

K-123 Aviodrome, Leystadt

Bristol F2B

‘E2466’ RAFM, Hendon (rebuild on original fuselage frame)
E2581 IWM, Duxford
D7889 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe (rebuild using substantial original components on original fuselage frame)
‘D8084’ Peter Jackson, New Zealand (rebuild on original fuselage frame)
D8096 Shuttleworth Collection, Old Warden
‘J8264’ Brussels Aviation Museum (rebuild on original fuselage frame)
“AB21” Museo del Aire, Madrid
????? Peter Jackson, New Zealand (fuselage frame only)
????? Vintage Aviation Historical Foundation, Kingsbury, Texas (incomplete)

Bristol M1C

C5001 Captain Harry Butler Memorial, Minlanton, South Australia (composite of two aircraft C4964 & C5001)

Felixstowe F5L

A-3882 NASM, Silver Hill, Maryland (Hull only – built as display exhibit, original)

Martinsyde F.4 Buzzard

MA-24 Keski-Suomen Ilmailumuseo (Aviation Museum of Central Finland), Tikkakoski

BE2

BE2c
2699 IWM Lambeth
5878 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe

BE2e
9969 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris (high degree of originality)
A1325 Peter Jackson, New Zealand
F1380 Gardermoen Museum, Nr Oslo

RE8

F3558 IWM, Duxford
A4719 Brussels Aviation Museum

FE2b

No Serial RAFM, Safford (being constructed around original, unused, nacelle)

SE5

SE5A
C1916 Canberra, ACT, Australia
F904 Shuttleworth Collection, Old Warden
F937/’F-939′ Science Museum, London
F938 RAFM Hendon
F7781/F7783 National Museum of Military History, South Africa

SE5E (Eberhart):
“G-BLXT” (original identity?) Flying A services/Wizzard Investments, Greenham Common
“AS-22-325 NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio

Short 184

8359 FAA Museum, Yeovilton (incomplete but highly original)

Sopwith Baby

‘N2078’ FAA Museum, Yeovilton (composite of 8214 & 8215)

Sopwith 1½ Strutter

1263 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
2897 Mémorial Flight Association, Cerny/La ferté Alais
S86 Brussels Aviation Museum
???? Kermit Weeks, Polk City, Florida (incomplete?)

Sopwith Pup

Original Pup:
B1807 Kelvin Baker, Winchcombe? (incomplete)
N5182 RAFM Hendon (rebuilt around substantial original components)
N5195 Museum of Army Flying, Middle Wallop

Converted Dove:
‘9917’ Shuttleworth Collection, Old Warden

Sopwith Triplane

N5486 The Aviation Museum, Monio, Moscow
N5912 RAFM Hendon

Sopwith Camel

F1:
B5747 Brussels Air Museum
F6314 RAFM Hendon
B6291 Al Letcher, Mojave, California (now sold?)
B7280 Polish Aviation Museum, Krakow (incomplete)
“N6254” D&R Holbert, Aerospace, Little Rock, Arkansas

2F1:
N6812 IWM Lambeth
N8156 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe

Sopwith Dolphin

D5329 RAFM Cosford (restoration incorporating little original material, in Michael Beetham Conservation Centre)

Sopwith Snipe

E6938 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe
E8102 Canadian War Museum, Ottawa (Fuselage only)
E8105 NASM, Smithsonian, Washington

Vickers Vimy

F8630 Adelaide Airport (repaired after fire damage)
BAPC.51(no serial No) Science Museum London (high degree of originality)

No Known Survivors (250+ Built)

DH2 (450 built)
DH5 (350 built)
DH6 (2,950 built)
Bristol Scout (381 built)
Handley Page O/400 (661 built)
Martinsyde G100/G102 (271 built)
FE8 (295 built)
BE12 (600 built)
Vickers FB5/FB9 (309 built)

FRENCH DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

Blériot XI

c/n 14 Shuttleworth Collection, Old Warden
c/n 56 Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, New York State (rebuilt from partial fuselage remains)
164 RAFM Hendon
686 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
???? NASM, Smithsonian, Washington D.C
???? Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, New York State (American Aeroplane Supply House built)
???? NMUSAF, Dayton Ohio (privately built from factory drawings)

Breguet XIV A2

2016 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
3C30 Keski-Suomen Ilmailumuseo (Aviation Museum of Central Finland), Tikkakoski

Caudron G III

C324 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
C2531 Brussels Air Museum
3066 RAFM Hendon
1E18 Hallinportti Ilmailumuseo (Halli Aviation Museum), Finland

Caudron G IV

C1720 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
C4262/2170 NASM, Washington Dulles

Hanriot HD 1

75 RAFM Hendon
78 Brussels Air Museum
515 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle
653? Fliegermuseum, Duebendorf
5934 Planes of Fame, Chino, California

Maurice Farman S.7 Longhorn

‘1’ Norsk Teknisk Museum, Oslo
???? Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris

Maurice Farman S.11 Shorthorn

‘CFS-20’ RAAF Museum, Point Cook, Victoria (Composite of three aircraft, with 70% new)
‘VH-UBC’ Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe
???? Brussels Air Museum
???? National Science Museum, Tokyo
???? JASDF?

Maurice Farman HF 20

???? Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris

Moraine-Saulnier AI

1567 Mémorial Flight Association, Cerny/La ferté Alais (Type XXIX)
1573 Kermit Weeks, Polk City, Florida
2283 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris (reserve collection)
???? Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, New York State

Moraine-Saulnier BB

A301 RAFM Stafford (incomplete – fuselage & undercarriage)

Nieuport 10

???? Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, New York State

Nieuport XI C.1

N556 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris

Nieuport 12 A.2

1504 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe

Nieuport 23 C.1

N5024 Brussels Air Museum

Nieuport 28 C.1

14 Museum of Flight, Seattle
607 Fliegermuseum, Duebendorf
6169 San Diego Air & Space Museum (constructed from composite of original parts)
6531 US Army Aviation Museum, Fort Rucker, Alabama
‘N4123A’ NASM, Washington Dulles (composite of at least five aircraft: 6497, 7103, 7226, 6465 & 6432)
???? Museo Nacional de Aeronáutica, Argentina (incomplete crash wreck)

Spad VII C1

S153 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle
S254 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris (high degree of originality)
S1420 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle (high degree of originality)
B9913 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe (note shares identity with VAM example, little original material remaining and contains inaccuracies in its construction)
B9913 Virginia Aviation Museum, Richmond, Virginia (note shares identity with CAM example, built from parts left over from CAM example’s restoration, again contains little original material but better built than CAM example, original woodwork now sold on again, in Arlington, Washington State)
B9914 Kermit Weeks, (incomplete aircraft, wrecked by storm damage, now under rebuild)
B9916 San Diego Aviation Museum
S11583 Czech Aviation museum, Kbely
AS94099 NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio
???? Louis Blériot, GPPA, Angers (under restoration)

Spad XIII C1

SP49 Brussels Air Museum
S4377 Mémorial Flight Association, Cerny/La ferté Alais
S5295 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
S7689 NASM, Smithsonian, Washington
16594 NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio
????? Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle (restored as Spad VII)
????? Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle (“remains” – how complete? In store)
????? Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris (fuselage and wings – in store)

Spad XVI

AS9392 NASM, Washington Dulles

Voisin L.A.S

V955 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
???? Brussels Air Museum (incomplete)
???? The Aviation Museum, Monio, Moscow

Voisin VIII

4640 NASM, Smithsonian, Washington

Voisin X Ca2

??? Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris (fuselage pod only, reserve collection)

GERMAN DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

AEG G.IV

574/18 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe

Albatros B.I

20.01 Heeresgeschichtliches Museum (Army Museum), Vienna

Albatros B.II

???? Polish Aviation Museum, Krakow

Albatros D.Va

5390/17 Australian War Museum, Canberra
7161/17 NASM, Smithsonian, Washington DC

DFW C.V

17077/17 Polish Aviation Museum, Krakow

Fokker E.III

210/16 Science Museum, London (highly original but canvas stripped)

Fokker D.III

Serial number not known? Vienna Technical Museum

Fokker D.VII

2523/18 Militaire Luchtvaart Museum, Soesterberg, The Netherlands
‘4404/18’ Deutsches Museum, Munich (Modified post-war Dutch build)
4635/18 NASM, Smithsonian, Washington DC
6796/18 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris
6810/18 Brome County Historical Society, Knowlton, Quebec (high degree of originality)
8417/18 RAFM Hendon
10347/18 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe (kit of parts under restoration)

Fokker E.V/D.VII

????/18 Museo Gianni Caproni, Trento (fuselage & engine only, under restoration)

Halberstadt CL.II

15459/17 Polish Aviation Museum, Krakow (incomplete)

Halberstadt CL.IV

8103/18 Deutsches Museum, Munich
‘D-4’ Deutches Auto-Museum, Schloss Langenberg

Halberstadt C.V

3471/18 Brussels Aviation Museum (high degree of originality)

Halberstadt CL.VI

8103/18 NMUSAF, Dayton, Ohio (rebuilt in conjunction with other two survivors)
8130/18 NASM, Washington Dulles (assembled from original parts around original fuselage)
???? Deutsches Technikmuseum, Berlin (assembled from original parts around original fuselage)

Hansa-Brandenburg D1

28.68 Nerodni Tecnické Museum, Prague (fuselage only)

Junkers J.1

586/18 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe

Junkers J.7 (D.1)

5929/18 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris

LVG C.VI

7198/18 RAFM, Cosford (Michael Beetham Conservation Centre)
9041/18 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris (currently under restoration by the Mémorial Flight Association)

Pfalz D.X11

2558/18 or 2630/18 or 2740/18 NASM, Smithsonian, Washington DC
2558/18 or 2630/18 or 2740/18 Seattle Museum of Flight
2600/18 AWM Canberra
2690/18 Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace, Le Bourget, Paris

Roland D.VIb

2225/18 Polish Aviation Museum, Krakow (incomplete)

Rumpler C.IV

???? Deutsches Museum, Munich

Rumpler 6B

???? Hallinportti Ilmailumuseo (Halli Aviation Museum), Finland

Siemens-Schuckhert D.IV

[10114] Polish Aviation Museum, Krakow (incomplete & converted into Albatross H.1)

No Known Survivors (250+ Built)

AEG C.IV (400 built)
Albatross D.II ?
Albatross D.III
Fokker Dr.1 (318 built)
Hannover CL.III/CL.IIIa (617 built)
Pfalz D.III (c1075 built)
Roland D.II ??

AUSTRO-HUNGARIAN DESIGNED AIRCRAFT

Aviatik Berg D.I

101.37 Vienna Technical Museum
101.40 Museum of Flight, Seattle

Aviatik C.III

???? Polish Aviation Museum, Krakow (incomplete)

Etrich Taube/Rumpler Taube

‘A108/14’/A118/13 Deutsches Technikmuseum, Berlin
???? Vienna Technical Museum
???? Luftwaffenmuseum, Berlin

Knoller C.II

119.15 Nerodni Tecnické Museum, Prague

Hansa Brandenburg B.I

???? Budapest Aviation Museum

Lloyd Prototype

40.01 Budapest Transport Museum

Lohner L-1

L-127 Museo Storico dell’ Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Vigna di Valle

FE2b or not 2b?

Don’t think theres any question of not regarding it as a legitimate survivor – especially when it’s finally completed and in the GW Hangar…..

It is of contemporary construction by an original manufacturer and presumably only a quirk of fate prevented it from sprouting wings and entering service – be that that the contact was terminated early or it was used as a pattern for series production. Whatever – it was built by the original workforce, using original materials, on original equipment, to original blueprints – that makes it more of a survivor than many of those listed

In deference to these sentiments I have now put the FE2b on the list, suitably caveated. If it is the consensus that this counts as a survivor then I am happy to follow the guidance of those with more knowledge than I, particularly since the list is not my list but a team effort.

I suspect that I have a more fundamentalist view than the considered joint view on what constitutes a “survivor”. Accordingly, I struggle with the concept of a surviving aircraft that has never actually been an aircraft at all. Accuse me of tautology if you like, but is it a very interesting relic? – Yes, will the resulting ‘plane be the nearest thing to a surviving FE2b? – Yes, will the finished aircraft have more period material in it than some other surviving aircraft with proven provenance? – Probably yes, will it be a more authentic representation of the type than some other surviving aircraft with proven provenance? – Yes, but has it ever been an aeroplane? – No. Nothing would please me more than to see a real surviving FE2b, but I am not sure that this should really be classed as more than a “reproduction based around an authentic period nacelle”. For what little it is worth, I certainly believe that it deserves mention as a footnote to the list at the least, but I believe that one can argue it quite strongly both ways whether it should be in the list as a survivor or not.

And if we say it’s not legitimate because it doesn’t have an military identity – neither does the Alcock & Brown Vimy. I also suspect there’s more original material than in the Dolphin………..

I think that these points are well put, but I think that the issue comes down of how one defines a survivor – the definition that I have been using is of any design that appeared in WWI, manufactured as a part of the original manufacturer’s (including sub-contractors) production run. Thus there is no problem with including the Alcock & Brown Vimy under this definition. I fully accept that one could take a hard line fundamentalist approach and say that only ‘planes constructed prior to 11 November 1918 (or should it be 1919?) should be included – in which case a good proportion of the list would disappear. Hopefully nobody would argue that either of these two different definitions are valid, but they produce quite different answers, and there are other possible definitions…

[Incidentally I have now included the Dolphin as well, which initially I felt too dubious]

But in the end, as I have already stated, the issue is one of shades of grey and is certainly not something to fall out over! As I stated above, I am more than willing to follow the view of the informed majority on this issue and would be interested in the results of a straw poll.

Why an anti-climax?

After finding out that a restored FE2b is, seemingly, to appear out of thin air shortly a mere assembly of stuff that most people know anyway is something of an anti-climax.

I now have some answers on the B9913 mystery – I should be able to post tonight about this.

PS The Weeks Spad is B9914!

Beardmore Engines

From Jeepman:

I suspect if RAFM found a Beardmore engine, some plans and some funding it would form the basis of a valuable addition to the WW1 collection…………….

Very interesting Jeepman -if it is a complete pod it seems to have as much as right to pass as a survivor as some of the other airframes that we are currently counting – what do you think?

I notice from the BAPC list of historic engines that someone posted a link to recently that there are two/three Beardmore 120hp engines in the UK:

“1914, 120hp, 14lt, 6L, w, 545lb
DHAeTS Hatfield: possibly used in DH1 replica, present location unknown
RRHT Bristol: possibly above engine?
Shuttleworth: sectioned”

I wonder if there others in places like Brussels/Canada/Oz?

One of my reference books also states “later aircraft benefiting from 160 hp Beardmore engines”. In which case it looks as if the RAFM might already have one in their care:

“1917?, 160hp, 16.5lit, 6L, w, 600lb
Hendon (Tyne & Wear County Museums Service)
Imperial War Museum: no.9481
Science Museum: no.519″