well, this article is clearly just rubbish. They have just started the talk on the purchase of 40 (not 36) J-10s and according to star49, that means the journalist must be right here.

U cannot dismiss whole article based on numbers. what about his MI-17 numbers.

K-8 is using WS-11

If u combine the two. Close to 80 AL-25 engines for JL-8 Chinese airforce.
http://www.ivchenko-progress.com/welcome.do?id=169
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/1997/04/09/529/ukraine-will-power-chinese-k-8.html
and the company is still using piston engines from Czech/Canada.

As for ARJ-21 and helicopters, you are right, we’d rather use PW Canada engine than the domestic ones. That’s because PW engines are much better in performance and reliability and servicing than those smoky Russian engines.

when did heli engines start smoking. any helicopter reliable than MI-17
klimov has yet to certify smaller VK-800/1500 heli engines.

Some Important points from Saturn. Export Su-35 will SuperCruise in Practical configuration. $10,000 per flight hrs is Su-27 cost. PAK-FA engine is 5+ with only $1500 per hr, Stealth, Supercruise consideration. certain things are secret. 4th generation engine 3 or 4 countries can make but 5+ and 6th generation.

http://www.npo-saturn.ru/!new/upload/editifr/51_0_new_engine_by_marchukov.pdf

YE.YU. Of marchukov: “NEW ENGINE IS EMBEDDED AFTER THE FACE OF THE EXISTING KNOWLEDGE” from that will be in Russia created the engine of the 5th generation, it depends, in the first place, will know how the country to ensure its defense capability in 21 century, in the second place, will remain the national producers of military aviation equipment on the world market for armaments. On the work OF NPO “Saturn” on promising aircraft engines tell YE.YU. Of marchukov, the deputy director NTTS im. A.M. of cradle, the doctor of technical sciences. – Yevgeny Yuvenal’evich, does exist some conventional determination (from the point of view of the most general characteristics) of the engine of the 5th generation, which it does principally distinguish from the 4th generation? – in reality, clear definition, what the engine of the 5th generation is, no. Usually the generations of gas turbine engines are divided according to their main characteristic – specific weight, i.e., to the ratio of the weight of engine to the thrust. In the engine of the 5th generation – this number 0,1, if we take reciprocal value – 10, then yest’y kg of the weight of engine creates by 10 kg thrust. The engines of the first generation created thrust only more than their weight – to one kilogram of weight it was fallen not more than one-and-a-half kilograms thrust. Naturally, when they speak about the engine of the 5th generation, are called other important technical characteristics – the temperature of gas is not below 2000 degree Kelvins, etc., but this is all – derivative. The main thing – to ensure the necessary specific weight this is technical aspect. If we look to the engine of the 5th generation from an economic point of view, then here principally important characteristic is the low cost of life cycle. But into life cycle enters everything – from the concept, from the “centerline”, as we speak, to the moment of utilization. This means that to its design, finishing and operation must be spent as less than means. To solve this task is possible only by realizing the complex of the complex design- technical solutions. The low cost of life cycle implies that the price of engine must be low. However it is paradoxical, engine with the best specific characteristics must cost less than the engine of the previous generation. So that it would be more intelligibly, I will give the example: cost 1 of hour of the operation of the aircraft of the fourth generation, for example, Su-27 – approximately 10 thousand dollars, and now is posed the problem (and by Americans, and by us) the cost of the hour of the operation of the aircraft of the 5th generation of reducing to 1,5 thousand dollars. You represent, difference practically by an order. For the completeness of picture it is possible to name another pair of the characteristics of the engine of the 5th generation. First, engine must have large nonafterburning thrust, because one of the basic criteria of the aircraft of the 5th generation – this cruising supersonic flight, in the second place, it must be invulnerable for PVO – AIR DEFENSE. Well here, 4 as could, it answered. – it is obvious that the creation of this product, which corresponds to all named characteristics, extremely complex from the point of view of organizational, technical and economic process. According to your estimation, how much generally companies in the world and, in particular, in Russia they possess the potential of the creation of the engine of the 5th generation. In reality even not firms, but the countries. In the world only of five states they can develop GTD – GAS-TURBINE ENGINE of new generation, beginning from the “centerline”, America, England, France, Canada and Russia. But the engine of the 5th generation – this complex integral system, which requires the development of many branches of industry, conducting serious studies in different directions, that even the foreign countries create this engine in the cooperation. For example, new engine F119 Americans made
independently, but the following engine – F135 for JSF – already with the attraction of many firms from different countries of peace. In Russia, I will say without false modesty, to create the engine of the 5th generation can only NPO “Saturn”, but furthermore in the cooperation. Naturally, to us is necessary aid – series plants and branch institutes – TsIAMa, VIAM – All-Union Scientific Research Institute of Aviation Materials. Why “Saturn”? Because it is association and to design thought, and serious production. However, main thing – the intellectual potential of the company: we gathered the best people from entire Russia into our firm, we gather and we will gather. But nevertheless I will be repeated – this engine must be made together. And my opinion – all operating times on this engine, which there is in Russia, we must try to combine, after forgetting about the ambitions of individual personalities. In principle, in the program of the creation of engine for the promising complex of front aviation so it is prescribed, that in “Saturn” – head role in development and production of power plant with the wide branch cooperation. – are there in the world concrete results on the creation of the engine of the 5th generation? – in THE USA is created engine F 119, it already on the aircraft flies. – it it is possible to name the engine of the 5th generation without the stretch? – yes, this is the engine of the 5th generation, it is very similar, actually, this is the analog of that article, which we made in our KB at the end of the 80th it was annual, a little anticipating Americans. Then this theme was stopped. But entire that reserve we used with the deep modernization of engine AL -31F (it is established on Su-27 – ed.), with the creation of izdeliyayy”S for the aircraft Su-35 were obtained there unique results. We by two tons increased the engine thrust. And immediately aircraft obtained new qualities. In particular, new engines practically ensure the supersonic cruise of destroyer. This is the export version of engine and aircraft. For our VVS there will be the modification with an even high thrust. The developed by us version of the deeply modernized engine AL -31F still will serve years fifteen; however, of this diagram we squeezed out already everything which is possible. If we now do not place the engine of generation 5+, then serious future our aviation not had. – is to what extent great break meanwhile that have made we and fact that it is made abroad, in particular, in THE USA? How Russia did remain in this region? – they remained years to eight. But far from all is lost. Now state turned himself facing the industry, to the aviation, to engine construction. Serious decision about the beginning of scientific research and experimental design works by the promising engine is made. Means are isolated, and in three years we must make an engine – demonstrator, an engine of the 5th generation, moreover even not fifth, but generation 5+. – are such strategy, concept and stages of the creation of the engine of the 5th generation in “Saturn”? – here far from all it is possible to speak – there is much secret information. I will designate the most general moments. During the first stage was realized the deep resource- tractive modernization of the engine of the 4th generation AL -31F, in which were inculcated the engine components of the 5th generation. I said above about this. In parallel we perform scientific research work through a number of critical technologies, on the production of separate it is main, to the creation of the demonstration of gas generator and engine. Practically simultaneously, with the small shift starts experimental-design work on the promising engine. After the completion of the stage of the creation of demonstration engine we pass to the real creation of the engine of generation 5+. In it specific weight is substantially less than 0,1. This engine is not the modernization of anything, it fundamentally new. Moreover the level of the parameters of engine embedded by us by anyone in the world is not yet achieved. It is conceptual, in the plan of ideas this engine to us is absolutely clear. But between the concept of engine and its real creation enormous volume of experimental design works and entire complex of special, resource and certification tests lies. But this time and large money.
From what sources did finance and does finance now the creation of the engine of the 5th generation, is sufficient its volume? – at the given moment work on the promising engine, unfortunately, does not finance. Isolated money into performing of scientific research work for three years, they are isolated on the resolution of government, but no treaty documents it is yet designed, real money yet obtained. Experimental-design work on the promising engine is included in the program on the armament. There is no real money still, but we hope that the financing will go since 2007. Financing on this engine – our position – must be budgetary. – A in THE USA due to what investments was created the engine of the 5th generation – quotients or state? – wholly due to the budget financing. – I of which there was its volume? – this billions of dollars. Five billion were spent to the program of the creation of engine for the aircraft of the 5th generation F -22. – is it possible it will use the scientific and technical operating times, created within the framework of the engine of the 5th generation, with the design of civil aircraft and industrial engines? – with the creation of new engine we propose the concept of the base gas generator, on basis of which by its simulation and changing the parameters of external outline can be created highly effective civil engines, drives for the gas-pumping, energy and ship aggregates. This way brings the decent savings of means. This skill – of placing gas generator. Such gas generator, on basis of which it is possible to create an entire parametric number of the engines of different designation. – when, in your view, to the “agenda” in Russia and in the world will leave the engine of the 6th generation? – generally in the history of science and technology there are periods of smooth development, and there are “jumps”, and to foresee these jumps – so is not simple, although, I consider that at present is accumulated the critical mass of new knowledge, and sufficiently soon, this “jump” it must occur for the next ten years. – which does enter into this “critical mass of new knowledge”? – for example, they developed ceramics, with the properties, which make it possible to make from it rotor blade with the fundamentally new characteristics by the weight, on the strength, and on the resource. Furthermore, is conducted scientific research work along the engine without the lubrication system and along the rotor with the magnetic suspension. I.e., as I understand, the engine of the 6th generation must be characterized by the principles of the organization of working process, and by materials, because this must be very serious step forward. Traditional the schematic of the gas turbine engine of ischerpala itself. Any technical system is developed as follows: if we along the Y-axis decompose effect, along the X-axis – means, it goes exponentially. I.e., you first pack a little, and effect you obtain large. When graph approaches the asymptote, then you pack means large, and effect vice versa insignificant. Now we are found on this asymptote – and we, and Americans. Therefore is must something fundamentally new. Within the framework of the creation of promising engine we encounter such technologies, which are adjoined with something still that not known, with the fact that men yet he did not understand and did not get to know. New engine is embedded after the face of the existing knowledge. I think, into the next 10 years must will appear something fundamentally new. When I learned in the school, in the institute, he thought: “as late I was borne – all already opened, to open something”. But now how more I work, I live, I think: “so early it were borne, still so many entire that not known”. Knowledge – as sphere. The more you know, the greater the contact surface with that unrecognized. And in the region of the search for the fundamentally new solutions we with the Americans are equal, here
there is no delay. now there are several proryvnykh ideas. For example, our concept of the pulsatory engine – principle itself has long ago been known, but we found the completely original form of its realization, we succeeded herself in catching fundamentally new physical process, and we here in front of the Americans. Another matter – they there something felt and they began to pack into this of means, but to us here nothing they give, inflate cheeks and speak: “yes, it is good, but you will not obtain money”. Now it stirred – innovation company at the level of government is created. Let us look, which will leave this. – today the process of creating the new engine is strongly formalized, they do speak, the time of “brilliant lone persons” did pass, was possible under these conditions the breakthrough, about which you do speak? – here this will ruin Americans. They are much more formalized, and we – the “poor to the fabrications it is sly” – we must something devise. I.e., they go in front, and we naiskosok must cut off, and overtake and outdistance them, here and everything. – A you do know, where “to cut off”? – about the pulsatory engine – yes. – Yevgeny Yuvenal’evich, this is interesting, to create the engine of new generation? – when I finished institute and arrived to work, it did doubt, I selected that profession. But now I is absolutely happy. Engineer – the most interesting profession on the earth. Very creative profession. Not less is creative than artist, artist, writer. Conversed Vitalius goroshnikov

No. They are still not reliable, as they only improved reliabilty slightly. F-18 is heavier because they are more structurally rugged and tougher for carrier use than MiG-29. Yet F-18s can still turn inside MiG-29s (go ask the RMAF).

F-18C is not heavier it is 10900KG empty. and what has turning anything do with TWR power as mentioned by US pilot. Turning has other things like Lack of FBW and MMI.

The Swedes are not astonished. Far from it.

show me that they were not impressed.

Does not matter. Sukhoi uses the Su-35/37 term and for that it loses credibility. What is the “Su-35” five years from now?

Why it lose credibility? They use as much as they want. No Airforce make decisions based on terms. It takes years of flight testing.

poor nation? Have you ever been in Japan? Compared to that to Russia, which is a slum by comparison

Japanese average income is 33,000 US a year. Russians are only $12,000.

Show me the Income tax rates? U dont know wealth measurement. iF Russian private wealth decide. they can buy country like Japan multiple times. U dont know and understand alot of things

For this year, thanks to Russian oil.

that oil is with government. I am thinking that private wealth.

They are not built by Russians. Only in your delusion, by falsely alluding Russian immigration to Israel has something to so with Intel’s Israel unit.

so what do u think about US/UK. than who controls that wealth? Just look at Stock market size and than Currency market and than the commodity market.
and why Russian IPOs are coming in London.

What science did Russia create for Asia, eh? Did Russia design DSPs? Nyet. Did Russia design hard disk controller chips and mechanisms? Nyet. Did Russia design graphics chips? Nyet. Did Russia design RISC architecture controllers like PowerPCs and MIPS? Nyet. Did Russia design Athlon and basic Pentium architecture? Nyet. Did Russia design motherboard bus controller chips? Nyet. Did Russia design and build internet routers. Nyet.

Offcourse they provided the science behind. becuse they went in millions to West before any Asian could even make a Radio by itself. and alot of there science was closed for publications during Soviet times.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/06/wrussia06.xml
Since it was founded by Tsar Peter I in 1724, the Academy has enjoyed immunity from government interference. Freedom to think and work unfettered has enabled 17 of its alumni since 1904 to win science’s highest plaudit, the Nobel prize. Of those, 14 have been within the past 50 years and the most recent, Vitaly Ginzburg and Alexei Abrikosov, shared the prize for physics in 2003

.

No. I take up little bits of data from Chinese internet forums where information leaks occur.

which is mostly like fake RollsRoyces.

So they advertized in the last decade as if the AL-41 can be fielded and sold with Su-34 and yet, 15 years have passed and only 35% of its research and development is only actually been completed?

AL-41 is name of program. and that report is from year 2001. They plan to finish it around 2012 in different form with TWR further increased. they can do interm with 117 AL-31 modification

Lol. The Russians were heavily in debt until oil prices went up.

US debt is in the government, not with the private enterprises. Japan’s debt is not carried by the corporations but by the government.

China also tried to convert state enterprises into civil products, and it proved to be a big money loser. China’s 1.2 trillion success rests mostly on other enterprises.

I will not continue on this. Since u have very little understanding.

Lol, a lot of stuff journalists say never come into fruition.

Read the whole story. Journalist were specifically invited for talk. It is no hearsay.

Perhaps, China has to prove it to them. But nonetheless China does not appear continuing to install AL-31FNs on J-10s for the rest of the year. So Pakistan does not have much of a choice.

Ur assuming that Chinese are continously building J-10s into operational Squardon. u cannot prove even existence 70 J-10s. Kanwa Pinko has interview that I posted that Chinese simply dont have pilots.

.

The Germans derated the engines to get more life out of them, as it is already pathetically short.

But they were still reliable and still got better TWR than F-18 and astonished the Swedes.

Lol Sukhoi has been advertising the Su-35 and Su-37 since 1999, despite that they cannot deliver on any contract within a year or so.

Those are different Su-35/Su-37

Oh bull. Japanese debt is held mostly by Japanese banks, not like Russia owing to the Chinese. So they have a handle on their own situation. Their foreign reserves should be at least 900 billion by now, and that’s all finished goods, not raw materials. Raw materials as a basis of economy tends to accent the haves and have nots, which is why there is a terrific class divide in Russia, since the people do not own the land resources.

u have serious problem in measuring wealth. Japanese got only $900b? with 160% debt to GDP ratio. Japan is poor nation in modern sense with both government and people in heavy debt. Can they have 13% flat income tax rate?. It is not important where Factory is located. U are still living in 16th century England by measuring wealth on Goods production location. Now Days wealth reside in cyberspace.

Ever thought who in London are putting this money in world largest IPO.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&refer=emergingmarkets&sid=aflKQJ5xQ_7g
May 11 (Bloomberg) — VTB Group, Russia’s second-biggest bank, raised $8 billion in the world’s largest initial public offering this year, as annual loan growth of more than 30 percent attracts investors.

Bull. Your so called Russian abstract science does not translate to produce products that can be directly sold to the people and businesses in peace time. Without the test of certifiability and acceptability as true, actually working products of quality, abstraction can be a lot of hot air. Just a bunch of theory, not working principles. And what makes you think that Russian abstract science is better than Japanese, who have built more powerful Tokamaks for example, and managed to run controlled fusion much longer than the Russian equivalent. You have not even begun to get into things like robotics.

So all those Microprocessors/Software of the world is built by Russians. Just look at those 2000 who are Desiging Dream liner. Japanese are merely subcontractors like Italians. Russians does not need to built things. They are providing the Scientific foundation to West(Again the same immigrants) which is building things in East Asia based on that Science. Asia will become Jobless if Russia does not create science for them.

It is Japan that sold a 5 axis milling machine to Russia in the eighties, not the other way around, as the Soviet Union is unable to create the precision million machines needed to create super low cavitation skewed propellers. Where is the benefit of your “abstract science” now eh?

Soviet Union was short of Money since 70s and Communist buerocratic system does not allow to concentrate on small things for improving human life
They have to Show big things like MIR space station. Okno Space tracking station, Buran Space Shuttle, An-225.

Actually I do have a very good range of its weight.

U dont have. u are just assuming.

Yeah entertain us more with your idiocy about engines built composites and modern warfare having little shrapnel.

It takes time to reveal things. and certain things are not for public anyway.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2001/06/26/132433/three-in-one.html
The revised published specification details the requirements. “We hit the bull’s eye with the AL-41,” Chepkin says, noting that the engine may have been conceived over 15 years ago, but requires only minor improvement to meet the revised specification. His estimate is that about 35% of the AL-41F’s research and development has been completed.

Further development requires test flights on an aircraft prototype. By 2006, the earliest that such a flight could occur, engineers will have improved the engine’s thrust-to-weight ratio from 11:1 to 12-12.5:1 through wider use of new materials (ceramics, metal ceramics) and re-designing some parts for better efficiency.

The blades are to be “a step forward from singles crystals”, and made of dispersed alloys of higher heat resistance. “We now have the technology to enable us to grow fibres in crystals that improve the internal structure of the crystal, akin strengthened concrete,” Chepkin says

Star
Russian BVR missiles usually have very poor pK’s too so case by case might be good rather than generalisation. As I stated the information I read, some years ago, was that there was no loft profile for R-77 and, because of this, frontal aspect shot range was a ways down on that achieveable by AIM-120. As I said to Ankush I’d appreciate correction on that if I’m wrong – lets see your source for the loft-trajectory being incorporated.

It is general assumption. I havent seen Russian saying that R-77 does not have lofted trajectory. There may be some quality issues but generally the airforce who has the choice like IAF/RMAF hasnt chosen any other BVR missile.

Net trawl over multiple sites gives a general indication of 150-160km for a ‘fighter RCS-sized’ target for the Russian set and circa 160km for CAPTOR. You may think that the Typhoons nose is ‘too small’ if you wish – it doesnt really have all that much bearing on the issue. What I will tell you is that the listed range is not unreasonable given the performance I know its predecessor was capable of.

It is again figures floating around without official or independent confirmation for BARS. Here is press release but they didnot said range. http://www.royfc.com/news/mar/2403mar02.html
Earlier version of Bars has detected Su-27 class target at 330KM.

Not too sure where your going with IRST’s and RCS but I was actually referring to the track handoff capabilities, the pilot interface etc, etc when I mentioned ‘battle management’ systems. As Ankush notes having a Guy In the Back is also an effective method of keeping situational awareness up. Does tend to makes ones aircraft a bit larger though and that does increase the RCS.

And u are going to use battle management in the absence of airsuperiority in neutral airspace. u cannot hide anything from Big poweful radar like BARS.

AL-41 associated with MiG project? Lol.
All of whom are not certified engines.

It wasnt?

J-10 project is the impetus that drove for certification of FM1 engine.

So what has FM engines anything to do with Saturn Project.

Not certified also.

How not certified? when MIG-29K first flew with MK engines dont u think Russians were putting non certified engines on new aircraft?

Some, not all.

All of them.

Regardless does not change the fact that the RD-33 is a smokey and unreliable engine.

In that time period and price u can only get Smokey engine and It had short life but not un reliable as confirmed by the Germans which u chose to ignore.

Irrelevant.

Does not change the fact that Sukhoi falsely advertised non existant capability.

Sukhoi has also been advertizing Su-35 and its simulators from 2006. So do u think it is false. They Know they can deliver in acceptable time frame. Which will be faster than any western manufacturure.

What a joke, considering how Russia does not even come to a faction of IPR applications of Japan’s. Average income of Japanese per GDP is many many times over that of Russian.

Average Japanese is much more in debt than Russian. 132% of household income. Just look at May 9 Wall street report. And now wealth is measured in Global scale. Just look at Israel/UAE/Saudi Arabia. they control wealth that is tens of times there own GDP. In Russia case u can multiply that by hundreds of times.

In the west, when you see the labs in Silicon Valley, we see a lot of Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Indian, Pakistani, Armenian, etc,. There is not that many, and quite few, Russians in proportion.

It is low end commercial stuff for personal/business/household consumption. It is not abstract science. And none of the above brought there own science. They consumed what was Provided by West which they got From Eastern EU immigrants.

http://www.stellardisplay.com/technology.htm
Before coming to the U.S. in 1994, he was Chief of the Vacuum Microelectronics Lab and Senior Lecturer in the Radioelectronics Department at Krasnoyarsk Polytechnical Institute in Russia. Dr. Karpov was educated at Krasnoyarsk Polytechnic Institute (B.S., Electronics), Leningrad Electrotechnical Institute (Investigator), and Leningrad Polytechnic Institute (Ph.D., Physics and Mathematics). He holds three issued U.S. patents, two pending, and numerous foreign patents
Dr. Karpov became the first person in the world to make viable edge emitters when he used carbon to solve the deformation problems of previous metal emitters. He was also the first person to make a structured emitter of carbon, now the most popular cold cathode material

And so, for a much bigger and heavier plane.

Not much bigger and heavier. u dont know the weight of J-10.

[quote[

Must be news to you.[/QUOTE]
surely. keep entertaining.

Selected does not mean its certified. In the past, Sukhoi has selected AL-37, AL-41, AL-31FM1, -FM2, and none of them came to pass. They are only trying to certify -FM1 (testing does not cut it) to meet PLAAF requirements, just like what, starting in 2005, because you have a J-10 engine contract order?

So Past, Present and future are the same? AL-41 was associated with MIG project. AL-37 became AL-31FP of MKI. J-10 contract order has nothing to do with Su-35/PAK-FA program.

Sukhoi won’t go through the expense and process of certifying something if that something isn’t inked in contract.

117S is first stage of two stage process towards 5Th generation engine. it has nothing to with any Flanker contacts.

Su-35 isn’t certified by the way.

But all subsystems are certified on other platforms.

Oh and did you check that the MiG-29K increased its weight?

Show me the weight figures?

smokey engines with only 200-300 hours of service life.

Better than non existent M-88 of 1980s with one tenth the price.

Sorry, but there is no air launched Kh-41 that is operational, in active service or in any form that you can ink a contract and deliver the next year.

The can surely deliver much more advance missiles like Kh-65/101 in less than year if they want to and money is right.. show me a missile in world that weighs only 1500KG have 360KG warhead and have 3500km range.
http://www.royfc.com/news/sep/0505sep02.html

Pre-1945, Japan isn’t that much better than Communist rule because they are under Fascist rule.

Pre 1945 Japan got Science from Europe. It didnot send millions of highly educated people to West to build another scientific power. Even today Japan have zero outside scientific contribution. there are 1 million Russians in england alone with 21% of upper class housing.

The dorsal spine does not make it more aerodynamic and the larger wing is for landing and takeoff purposes for the carrier.

and it is also to carry 10 underwing weopon stations with much more space to carry bigger PGMs. which smaller wing of J-10 cannot do so.

Really, and you must be an idiot to think composites are used to build engines.

so no composites are used to build engines?