But who did it for the PLAAF A-50I, the airframe that was sent to Israel?

so u think it was done by chinese?

WPS
February 9, 2000
The work on the airplane was done in Russia in strict secrecy. Representatives of the TANTK refused to give any information about the new system. In Russia it does not even has an official designation (abroad it is sometimes called A-50I). Details of the airplane’s construction are not disclosed too. It was only reported that its radar would have three active phased arrays which would increase its efficiency and simplify construction of the airplane. In particular, this solution makes the antenna and its flaring fixed (at E-3 and A-50 the flarings rotate).
In April 1999. Victor Livanov, the General Director of the Aviation Complex of Ilyushin, announced that “export versions of A-50 should be outfitted with Russian equipment.” According to Livanov, Russian companies can outfit new versions of A-50 with most advanced equipment

Which ones the Russians built? They did not build anything in China. GE, Westinghouse and French companies have built nuclear reactor plants in China.

why u in such big denial?. the most advanced are the two NPP tainwan. there are pictures floating on kommersant.

Yes, we have seen enough pictures on the number of tails to conclude the number is correct. The fact that we know the last number in the planes in the first regiment was 19, because we know the next number, 20, was in a different regiment. 19+19 = 38. Exactly what Sukhoi themselves later revealed.

offocourse u have pictures of everything. seeing Chinese deception of things. u cannot presume from first to last.

Bull. If you can rebuild them, you know enough to upgrade them.

rebuilding does not equal upgrading. u can only rebuild untill the point of original. the rest u have to steal.

What technology does Russia have in those slotted array radars that is better than what the Chinese can get from studying the Israelis?

studying from israelis? (most of sanitized stuff for export after US sort it out)

The engine isn’t the only Russian-made component in China’s J-10. The aircraft also has a Russian-made Zhemchug (Pearl) radar system. China has managed to build its own multi-purpose fighter thanks to substantial help from Russia: Russian specialists have taken part in testing and perfecting the aircraft, according to Barabanov
Vedomosti, July 11, 2005, p. A3

Lol. You’re really stupid. The Block 52 has been upgraded all these years, and many of the technologies also appeared in the F-16 MLU. Thus the Block 52+ is just a collection of all the previous upgrades into one brand new airframe. The reason why it took years to come out is because the company has a long waiting list on the planes.

the same u can say about any block of F-16. and in late nighties there werent that many orders so u have to wait 5 years for first aircraft. show me waiting list in 1999? only Israel, Greek with UAE development F-16E ordersl.

Conflict of interest. Russia isn’t going to tech transfer something they can sell directly for more profit. That means they won’t tech transfer the engine and certainly they didn’t, and they won’t tech transfer the radar for the same reason. Time and time again, it is clearly stated the Russians did not and would not transfer engine tech to China as this is against both their commercial and strategic interest.

It is not against there commercial and strategic interest as they have already found out China capabilities.

The Iron Bird FBW has been shown in exhibits before and someone has said it resembles the Lear Siegler system used in F-16s and the Lavi.

again more hearsay.

Lol and you think you’re credible?

offcourse much more.

The bottomline now is that China makes it all by itself from engine to radar.

the bottom line China cannot make anything out of its own. It can only license, copy other countries stuff.

As for Western involvment, you think that projects like the 052C destroyers have Western involvement despite having an AEGIS like four sided radar with data fusion? I don’t think the US had direct involvement in teaching the Chinese on this, and neither did the Swedes for the KJ-200 AWACS.

so do u think this knowledge come out from Chinese Universities. offcourse they have taken literature from West and than used russian to build for them after failing to do by themselves.

The Chinese studied extensively from sources in the West, gathering information by hook or crook. That alone may be enough to get the project going without direct Western involvement or tutorial. Projects like the Han and Xia class subs were developed without any Russian and Western involvement. So did the Chinese sending their first satellite into space, testing their first IRBM and ICBM, or exploding their own H-Bomb.

these all come from WEST and Russia sciences. u sent people to study there so u build things and that also with external help with rip off of dual use technologies. u can not make a claim like below.

http://www.royfc.com/acft_news_old_nov4.html#01dec
The airplane is being equipped with a new modern avionics complex (KBO), which is based on the latest achievements of Russian science

Bull. With regards to night vision in helicopters, the PLA certainly has them for some time before. Now it is 2006 and a lot of items have been mastered which is why Russian arms purchases has seriously dropped over the last few years.

they havent been droped. it is become miltary-technical cooperation so continue employment for defence industries people.

China has world largest Military-Industrial complex interms of manpower and greatest amount interms of PPP but net result if only copying 1980s era tech at best. this from Kanwa defence chief editor that u want people to believe on it.

The Chinese have been making Tsian-10s for 18 years and they still buy engines for the fighters from Russia. We live in the 21st century, and China is still buying basic technologies of the SU-27, Soviet fighter of the 1980’s vintage. Moreover, the Chinese AF has a lot of internal problems it grapples with.
Question: What are they?

Xian Ihun: Shortage of qualified pilots. Free market economy, you know. Airlines are established everywhere and they tempt AF pilots with higher salaries.

A-50 is not the same as the KJ-2000. Look at the A-50 antenna. Mechanically rotating rotodome with the antenna fixed on two sides. KJ-2000 uses 3 face phase array fixed on all three sides without rotation.

Was the first A-50I certified by Beriev rotating? is the current picture on berieve site rotating? u havent seen the picture of there new AWACS. so how u say it will be rotating.?

Bull. What space cooperation? What nuclear plant cooperation? Nuclear plants in China are made by GE or Westinghouse. After Chernobyl, I don’t think the Chinese would want something from the Russians. Space cooperation? The only thing they got from the Russians is the docking ring because the Chinese wanted one that is compatible with the ISS.

where is ur GE nuclear reactor on completion.? the two biggest ones are russian. and dont embrass urself about space stuff. i can tons of that from official mounths.

Which only mentioned 45 planes, but KANWA however knew of the signed quantity of 38 planes.

where is that 45 planes mentioned? and u wont know the actual number anyway because of secrecy.

Yes, the Chinese knew ZILCH about the B-29 aircraft structure and yet they were able to mount a rotating rotodome on one.

Yes Chinese can built Antonov replicas but they will never built IL-76 by themselvs.

Sorry but Russians have generally make a lot of mistakes when using the English language often in their attempt to make English language articles. There is no evidence that batches of radars were ever sent, just as SIPRI ultimately deleted such references in their updates.

what kind of evidence. when Phazotron is themselve is saying they are running 25 enterprizes by foreign funds.

Yup and that is something you dont’ seem to understand yourself.

i fully understand. when F-16I was signed and when the first aircraft delieverd. Almost 5 years.which is equal to development anyway.

Lol. When the US sold F-16 Block 52 to Poland and Greece and Israel, you bet they’re already certified systems.

just lookt at the F-16I timeline u will know the answer. Poland is also appracohing 4 year mark.

And I told you Flight International is in error and I have shown you they’re not reliable. I don’t see why Phazotron would help a potential competitor in the Chinese market.

where is the error. they just said likely which is not equal to confirm.

Substandard work? Hah, what do you know. The old Type 208 radar manages a distance of 75km and so did the old JL-7A. The latter is the radar mounted on the J-7D, and that’s about the same range you get with the Kopyo.

how u know it is 75 KM? . everything changed after 2001 friendship treaty. thats where every technlogy was proliferated. untill april 2001 even FC-1 was grounded due engine issue.

Because they’re a close ally but they did put Israel on notice. When the Phalcon deal happened, that went too far. The US somehow cannot enforce much, given that the British were also able to sell Skywarrior and Skymaster radars to China for the F-7MG and the Y-8MPAs. For that matter, the US wasn’t able to stop China from getting Litton APS-503 radars for MPAs.

read little about GEC Marconis stuff. EU has independent policy of each country on case by case basis. US could enforce it right in 1996 with Israel but they were just looking at it how it develops and strip it down under its own supervision. u are in great delusion about Israel getting its own. J-10 drawing does not add much without Russian help. Without Russian J-10 would still be on drawing board.

China’s first FBW plane was an experimental J-6 testbed. The first plane with FBW that they put into operational use was the JH-7, which not only had pitch only FBW but had terrain following. Then the J-8II ACT. Then the J-10 and the JH-7A, which took the JH-7’s FBW to a full two three axis. The Feibao FBW used on the JH-7A has been chosen as the FBW for the J-11B.

how do u know there was no external help in those also? .
every thing is from outside. u can judge this from Musharraf writing letters to Kremilin every month and India loss of confidence on Russian weopons because of proliferation of technologies.those two countries behaviour tell every thing for those who understand.

I don’t know if the L-15 used Russian FBW. The company that did the L-15 is a small company that does not have the resources of Chengdu, Xian or Shenyang.

But they have the money to outsoure it to another country. U cannot make a decent engine for K-8 in past two decades.

You’re right. The guy is a complete idiot and cannot keep on topic but I cannot resist kicking ass.

Cant help but certain people are in big delusion. u should be glad untill the the time when Russian joins Western Alliance. everything will comes out the known unkowns and unknown unkowns.

You really know nothing. That’s because of all the systems that was developed, the MKK’s system is the one that had the most certifications and testing, and all of that was already paid for by the Chinese.

so the same can be said about A-50. they already had the A-50U. and they tested airframe certification for A-50I unitll 1999. the rest is just antenna and avionics upgrade not the rotodome certification. so why cant the same example is applied to A-50E project just like Su-30MKK.

The difference is one, the AWACS is considered strategic, and the MKK’s radar as being tactical. Furthermore, the MKK’s system is hardly the technological edge but the AWACS system is.

Space cooperation is not strategic? Nuclear plant is not strategic? or u want further embrassment.

And without someone buying it, either the IAF, the PLAAF or the RuAF, that thing won’t be certified eitehr.

It does not mean that technology is not there. who certified Zhuk-ME?

Go check it out yourself since you’re so good in finding things. I am only telling you that the news reports on the numbers of MKKs have been erroneous with most media except KANWA.

I have checked alot of things. I havent seen a report with erroneous sign order from a credible source. all are about negotiations.

Lol. The Chinese put a rotodome on top of a B-29 so believe me they have practice. And I doubt that the Y-8 with the rotodome now is their only one; they would have certainly made studies and demonstrators. Pictures of such planes appeared years ago but were then dismissed as PS. Now, we’re not sure of that anymore.

yes B-29 is the same thing as IL-76. read a little bit in depth about the aircraft. u will know the answer.

BS*t. Even the Russians are stunned by the Chinese ability to research and develop things

Really? or they have to remain quiet and put praise in public and laugh in private.

In May 2000 Sergey Chernyshev, the Russian Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute (TsAGI) deputy director for international business development, stated that TsAGI’s priority in China was to increase its efforts in the field of civil aviation. A significant part of the institute work in China involves basic training programmes to teach Chinese engineers more about aeronautical research and development

When you’re inviting people, you probably don’t have enough of the technology themselves.

Nope. It is to grab money ahead of time.

Yes, nothing more than evaluation samples.

U need english comprehension skills here. Note the word Batches

Not really as well. until a customer orders them. Kopyo and BARS are certified because India was ordering.

Buying a radar is not some thing u can do from off the shelf. u have to certify it on specific platform even if is fully developed.

Flight Internation, FEB 24, 1999.
A senior official says: “We don’t want to digress, we want to finish it. We thought we had a fully developed radar from what they had done in Singapore with the Grifo F [on a Northrop F-5E/F upgrade]. What we thought was that it would be a simple adaptation for the Mirage III and miniaturisation of the same to fit into the F-7. Obviously, it doesn’t work that way – it’s more like a development programme.”

What? Your ignorance about the aviation industry really shows here. All F-16 system are certified before they were even sold. The reason why F-16s take years to obtain is in having a long customer list.

so F-16E was certified when it was sold? and they could make more 200 F-16s in mid eighties.

And you don’t know anything about the Su-30MK2. The systems there are exactly like the MKK’s except for a processor and software upgrade.

the same can be said about any other aircraft like F-16 blocks. mostly are software and processor upgrades.

Bull.

NRIET:

KLJ-1
KLJ-3
KLJ-4
KLJ-6
KLJ-6E
KLJ-7
KLJ-10
Type 1492

LETRI:

JL-10A
SY-80

these are substandard work with external help. untill 2001 u could only make radar of 40 km range. and that JL-10A has clear Phazotron help from Flight International report.

The FC-1 is being sold to Pakistan with Chinese radar that can use the SD-10 missile. That’s the bottomline now.

It is not the bottom line. It is musharraf begging russians to give permission for reexport. i am not sure about SD-10 clearance yet.
how he come to know russian weopons except if they are in China.

The main obstacle to improving relations between Pakistan and Russia is that Russian policy is fully focused on India, as it was in Soviet times. For instance, we cannot buy Mi-17 helicopters from you because you constantly look back at India and are afraid of offending it. Along with this, we could sign a lot of large and mutually beneficial deals with you and develop, for instance, space communication. Why cannot we do this?! I would say directly: obstacles are found only in Russia and not in Pakistan
Now our specialists are informed not only about Americans weapons, but also about Chinese, Korean, French, British, Russian and Ukrainian weapons. There are very big opportunities for cooperation in this area
Zavtra, No. 6, February 9, 2006,

One of the reasons why China has not been willing to sell fighter radars before to Pakistan is the Chinese paranoia for secrecy.

Now what changed that paranoia except that they are selling some one else technology.

I’m pretty sure the US among others would like to see a set first hand. The intel purposes is that obvious. When you make a fighter radar that you plan to export, make sure it operates on a different set of frequencies or work in different specifications than the ones you are using in your own aircraft.

US already know what China is thats why they put embargo. US thought Russia will becomme a democracy like rest of europe after coldwar. they just mis judge that part.

The US did take Israel to the task for this and still doing it today.

why didnot US take Israel to task in 1996 to 1999 period.? read more about this before further speculating.

You got to be joking. The Chinese were able to write FBW software themselves. FBW software is not transferrable from aircraft to aircraft, they are strictly customized for it. You cannot even share the FBW software between a Lavi and a J-10.

surely Chinese can do FBW. thats russians are doing for L-15. it is not better not go into MIG. u need russian help for even basic stuff like K-8 to make it viable for future. how many K-8 are exported with domestic engine in past 2 decades.

You truly don’t know ****. The RuAF Su-27SM is based on the Su-30MKK. Go ask KnAAPO.

I know. My question why it flow after Su-30MKK. by ur logic everything should have flown before in Russia before it is flown in China.

The MOUNTAIN of evidence is the one truly against you.

You truly don’t know ****. The Su-30MKK has much more capable adar and avionics suite over the Su-27SK. That is why Sukhoi can license the Su-27SK, but for China to make the Su-30MKK, you need to pay an additional license over that.

The same can also be said that Ruaf AWACS coming out in 2008 is alot more advanced than what they sold to China. so whats the difference.?

You simply don’t understand what CONFLICT OF INTEREST means.

I have never underestimated it but u dont understand the power of up front money without doing the actual work.

This shows you how much I know compared to you. You really have not been around in 1999 to 2000 to note that articles from Newsmax to Janes were saying around 45 aircraft, and it was KANWA who reported it as 38.

what news max or janes has anything to do with Interfax/Itar-tass

Furthermore, in the Su-30MK2 order, dailies were all reporting different numbers from 28 to 40, and KANWA reported the correct order of 24.

show me this from reputable source with sign order.

Lol. Putting it underneath is like putting it on top. You need to modify the airframe in both ways. As for Russian involvment, well, I never saw the Russians modify their Tu-154s into civilian spy planes either.

So if u never saw russian modify Tu-154 it does not mean they havent done it for chinese. and putting rotodome on top with several meter height and size of 11m is not the same.

YOU ALWAYS FAILED TO NOTE THAT RUSSIA HAS TRADITIONALLY VIEWED CHINA WITH SUSPICION AND WILL NOT **TRANSFER** TECHNOLOGY THAT THREATENS ITS NATIONAL SECURITY AND FINANCIAL INTERESTS.

But that is traditional view. the contemprory view is that middlekingdom will remain a midlevel power becaus of lack of intellectual capacity to surpass in miltary spare.

Selling components like radars are not the same as transfering the technology of the radar so that the Chinese could make them. Russia can sell something like the IRBIS to the Chinese, but they’re not going to teach the Chinese how to make them.

they will definitely sell the techology if money is right. they even invited for 5th generation fighter.

Lol. The fact that it is not usable means its not usable period and that means you don’t have it in any way that the Chinese would desire to have it.

so all other radars that i mentioned that were usuable and certified on platforms? No where every thing is ready made. If u order F-16 today. u will get first aircraft after 3 years with standard radar. It is not like with in 5 months like recent Su-30MK2.

In any case we have gone through this again and again, that the Israelis are the contributors to Chinese radar development. They helped fix the JL-7A radar for the J-7D and J-7E so that the radar can que the Python 3, and in 1995, they sold evaluation sets of radars to China, including the EL 2035 derivant for the J-8C. The 2035 is the radar used in the Lavi. That is way before China ever got a slotted array radar from Russia for evaluation. In addition China appears to have gotten at least two EL 2032 radars which ELTA was eyeing for J-7E upgrades in competition with the GEC Marconi Super Skyranger radar. China also had access, obviously, with the FIAR Grifo 7 and MG sets, the MG like the Super Skyranger and EL 2034/35/32 are slotted arrays.

and china also have obviously alot of slot array radar from west since 80s like Apg-66, Grifo-M, Elta but it does not mean that i can produce anything of its own. It came in late 90s when russian technical experts join in on ground. (read the interview on interfax. russians got more visa to chinese than the other way around and surely they were not building washing machines). U can judge this fom PAF chief June, 2004 interview with AFM when he clearly states that untill late 90s they look at radar factories making radar for J-10 in China and they were making obsolete stuff. thats why open tender for FC-1 radar.

So there is a lot of foreign radars that China had access on, not to mention that IAI ELTA actually opened a Beijing office. Even when Russian provided Zhuks for evaluation with the F-8IIM, it won’t have changed anything. Why would they study the Russian samples when they already have access to radars even better such as the EL 2032/34/35.

US would have taken israeli to task if anything worthwhile was transferred in 90s. they trapped Israelis in 1996 when Israel informally indicated Phalcon sale to US but US remain quiet for 3 years and than all of sudden jump in 1999 when the A-50 arrives. go read this history.

The fact that the Russian radars not only lack processing power but the software is coded in archaic assembly language means everything. It means the technology isn’t usable, and the software is so specific to the hardware it is not usable and portable to more powerful commercial processors, leaving them stuck to using Baguiets and other 8 to 16 bit processors when others are running on 32 bits and RISC chips. China needs technology that is workable and proven; theoritical framework, it has loads of it already and don’t need more. You think that China didn’t know about the principles of slotted array mechanical scanning even back in the eighties? The fact that the Chinese programmers appear to be using ADA and C++ for their software shows a strong Western inspiration.

what makes u think they cant change processor and software. it is 16 years of military technical cooperation. and China software in military area is a big joke.

What do you really know? The Su-27SKM is so based on the Su-30MKK/MK2 that you can regard the SKM as the single seater version of the MKK.

I only referring to Ruaf Su-27SM(first flown december.2002) that was delievered 4 years later compared to Su-30MK to China.

That is 2005. The first KJ-2000s were flying already by spring of 2004 and by the same year, has at least 3 planes. Fact always remains it is a conflict of interest for the Russians to try to share this technology while trying to sell it to the same customer.

Why its not conflict of interest when they were selling the license of Flanker and trying to sell Su-30 also? how much difference is in technolgy. practically nothing. The mountain of evidence against u is alot on this issue. about sharing of technolgy. there is not even a single decent military thing that Chinese have developed without Russia. and it is not even difficult to prove it through 3rd party.

Lol. The contract is already late and they cannot fulfill it on the price written on the contract. It’s practically dead.

Lesson goes: before you promise to sell something at a given price, will it be a big bother to check up if you can actually produce that something?

Lesson. Dont try to sell obsolete stuff on rock bottom prices.IF higher price IL-76MF with glass cockpit would have been ordered. there is alteast incentive to produce in a better manufacturing plant inside Russia.

You are the one not fully understanding the issue when you cannot even tell the difference of the two radars. The Zhuk-M doubled the processing bus width and therefore exponentially improving the processing power that you can fit into the radar. And with that, the processor is also changed. That means an improvement in just about everything that requires the processing juice.

I fully understand. the issue is not processor/software power but the level of upgrade. No airforce will waste time and resources on upgrade which increase detection range by mere 20% or so. IF there is 100 to 300% difference than may be.

You’re comparing a non arms industry periodical to a defense magazine that is trying to scoop issues the Rusarms industry themselves try not to say. KANWA was the first to catch the right number of MKKs China ordered (38, not 45 as other Russian publications claimed). KANWA caught the order of 54 AL-31FNs on the same month it was inked, and the Russian pubs didn’t say anything about this. KANWA also scooped the China’s order of the 2 new Sovremannies in the same month the contract was inked. Ahead of everyone.

this shows how much u know. they have defence magazine separate and it is so powerful that it is daily from each industry, each military exercise, base, training. where is the claim of 45 inked order for reputable source? and continously mentioning it throught out the years.

Speculate? The Tu-154 ELINTs were done with fixed underlying radomes underneath the plane that were not done by Tupolev. That’s a fact clearly in every photograph of the plane.

putting underneath is not the same as on Top. Argus 2000 proposal was radar in nose and tail. just like chilean 707 phalcan. and how do u know there was no Russian involvement in Tu-154?

Developing is not the same as ‘having’. Having is when you have them deployed operationally in your air force in a proven and certified manner that is satisfiable with the user. Just because something is being developed, does not mean it’s fixed and usable. You always seem to confuse the two.

kopyo/GrifoM/Apg-80/RDY-2/Bars fully developed and certified when they were ordered? u cannot change the fact that Russian had flown Slot array radar since mid eighties on actual fighter not even on test bed. it may lack the processing power and software development but they had the technolgy to quickly certified if a customer ordered it.

Wow, what an answer.

so what is wrong with answer.

Bull. Zhuk-27 got superceded by Zhuk MS. That took place a lot earlier before there was even an IRBIS.

so whats the difference between Zhuk-27 and Zhuk-MS. u are not fully understanding the issue.

China’s dumping of the Zhuk-27 absolutely has no relation to the IRBIS at all, none whatsover and its not even in the same time scale.

i understand different times, different money, different level of upgrades. but u are not getting the point.

Partly because of cost and they need to evaluate one product first. But this is likely because they only need one plane to study the technology.

yes u can evaluate it. u can only copy at same tech level with cheaper price. u dont go far like transfer of technolgy. that show u the way to future.

Excuse me. But you have been proven wrong so many times, your veracity to claim FI is flawless as proof for example.

wrong? where.

Sorry, but an A-50 would make BIG news, and it is very unlikely that Russia would intend to share the technology of its most advanced A-50 (and quite far from maturity) to the Chinese, and certainly won’t explain why the KJ-2000s won’t come out quite ahead of the A-50Eh.

why Su-30MKK came out ahead of Su-27SM? and Su-27SM is alot more advanced.
what is this than?

Moscow, 24 August: The Taganrog-based Beriyev aircraft scientific industrial enterprise (TANTK) has upgraded the first A-50 airborne early warning and control (AWACS) aircraft.

“The first upgraded A-50 has recently made its maiden flight,” Viktor Kobzev, TANTK director-general, has told Interfax-Military News Agency.

He pointed out that the modernization of the A-50, used as a platform for the AWACS system, was carried out at the TANTK experimental plant. “Other A-50 aircraft in service with the air force will most likely undergo modernization here as well,” he said.

According to Kobzev, the modernization envisions several stages. “As far as A-50s are concerned, we deal with almost the entire life cycle, including repairs and modernization, service life extension, after-sales maintenance, etc,” he said.

According to experts, the A-50 is superior to the US E-3 AWACS in terms of its ability to discern targets against the background of the earth, and the distance to which the data is transmitted (via satellites). By now a total of twenty A-50s have been manufactured. According to various sources, the Russian air force operates 16 to 19 of them. In addition to that, the Russian air force operates about twenty-five Il-76SK command planes, based on the Il-76MD.

The world operates a total of over 220 aircraft of a similar type, which are in service with at least 17 states and the NATO Allied Joint Force Command.

Under the contract signed in October 2003, three A-50s are to be delivered to India. The aircraft are expected to be fitted with Israeli avionics. The Russian side is represented by TANTK, the Ilyushin company, and the Vega scientific industrial association.

Source: Interfax-AVN military news agency web site, Moscow, in English 1100 gmt 24 Aug 05

Furthermore, the Chinese _are_ tending their IL-76s without Ilyushin personnel. The Chinese maintain their Flankers with their own people helped by Ukrainians and Belarussians.

thats why they buy hundreds of millions of spare parts. despite having license to airframe.

And lastly, the IL-76 contract has yet to be resolved and it looks like China is very unhappy that Russia could not deliver the planes as specified THIS year.

there was three party agreement. and only Uzbek slow it down but they are going to solve it by december.

The Su-27 is extremely heavy and on the edge of what you would call a fighter. That doesn’t mean it’s bad, but if the Eurofighter was planned with a 18 ton empty weight from the start, you would be surprised what would have come out of it.

Su-27 is only 16.5 ton empty with huge fuel tank and nose. u cannot fit that radar into tiny nose of Rafale.
it is Su-30MK that is 18 tons. and it does not use advance weight saving materials.