alright, 2002 then, still 2 years then.

have u seen anywhere in the world that AWACS conversion is done in 2 years. especially when u have no prior experiance and the previous one is done by some one else and have no data about the platform.

That’s what they said to Kanwa. Kanwa is not the best source for everything (like analyzing data), but its Russian interviews are some of the most accurate stuff it does. You get an exact idea of what the Russians think about certain Chinese systems and what the Russians think Chinese are interested in. And I honestly don’t see what the russians have to gain by admitting that they did not help China on KJ-2000.

russians are officially prohibited from telling about technical cooperation. and there is no attempt of selling the awacs since 2001. u can see from airshow participation of the system.

And what technology did the Russians sold that were ever in direct conflict with their own stuff?

simply J-10 would be delayed by alteast 10 years. putting more for Flankers or forcing joint single engine fighter codevelopment for third world countries.

For example, the Russians deliberately withheld engine technology to the Chinese because they wanted to sell as much of their own engines as possible.

I think license is more profitable than selling the engine. It seems chinese doesnt want to pay. because even after licensing u still have to pay for actually building the engine.

Whatever “hefty sum” the Russians may obtain from technical assistance, it won’t be matched by the hundreds of miillions to billions a complete platform order will bring.

here thing is alittle opposite from engines as they dont have fully functional AWACS. so they first have to upgrade it and later sell. so for that upgradation they might have sold the tech and later build there own.
It is russian interest to make China depeded on IL-76 platform from Awacs to transport. and offcoures develop there own AWACS. just like Su-27SM from Su-30MK.

And this is already operational and ready for export?

No awacs is ready. every awacs is customized.

The A-50U was offered to China and in 2001 it was nearly signed, but never followed through. Russia still improved the A-50 and even attempted to market it again in 2005, but China was not longer interested.

On the A-50 sent to Israel, that was returned long time ago to China.

China not buying the whole A-50 does not Exclude russian technical participation in Chinese AWACS program based on A-50. India/Israel has to wait 3 years just get a nod of Russia for antenna. Similarly Uzbek factory has wait for russian specialist to start work on IL-76 even if all components and documentation is supplied and workers are trained.
I havent seen any report from 2005 of selling A-50. It was used just for exercises.
u can see this from combat helicopter. there is no sale of combat helicopter.

Russian and Chinese Military to Create to Combat Helicopter

The Kamov Design Bureau and one of the Chinese Aviation Corporations have agreed to the joint development of a fifth generation combat helicopter. As a correspondent of the Deyta.RU information agency has reported, the governor of the Primorskiy Kray, who was taking part in the eighth regular meeting of the heads of the governments of Russia and China, spoke about this at a meeting with journalists.

According to Sergey Dar’kin, an agreement on the joint development of modern weapons based on the Ka-50 and Ka-52 combat helicopters was signed within the framework of the meeting of members of the Council of Heads of State of the Member Countries of the Shanghai Organization
Source: 07.10.03, Deyta.RU

[QUOTE=tphuang]huh????

it means if u have not heared anything before it does not mean it hadnt happened.

they salvaged one A-50 from the Israelis after 2000, there is 3 years from 2001 to 2004.

when they received the A-50 back from Israel? I have put 2002 interview. and 2004 pictures flying of A-50

As for the articles you posted, do you seriously think these pre-2004 articles have any kind of validity? Seriously, it’s already shown that China took its existing fleet of IL-76 (from B-4030 to B-4049) and converted some to KJ-2000 (B-4040-4043). So, we know exactly which IL-76 in pla service got converted.

do u think Ilyusian/Berive specialist are not sitting in China to do the conversion. just like anyother project.

it was an interview with Beriev. I followed KJ-2000 for a while, I have NEVER seen a valid source that stated China got help from the Russians in modifying IL-76 for KJ-2000.

u have never heared of L-15 FBW before? what does it prove.

The first KJ-2000 was using an A-50 airframe, but the ones after that got directly modified from IL-76.

the contract with russia was not frozen to begin with. it was the israel part of contract that was cancelled. and how u install within One year the complete radar when it usualy takes 3 years to do that for first system? chinese Awacs pictures were already floating by 2004. so it is ready made system.

this is from 2002.
Moscow, 16 January: The contract for the delivery of Russian-Israeli airborne warning and control systems [AWACS] A-50E to China “has been frozen but not cancelled”, Gennadiy Panatov, director-general of the Beriyev scientific and technical aviation complex in Taganrog, said in an exclusive interview with an ITAR-TASS correspondent.

According to Panatov, the A-50E (export version) system was designed by specialists of his complex on the basis of Russia’s Il-76 aircraft. The aircraft was fully modernized in compliance with the requirements of the Israeli side, which is the final supplier under the Chinese contract. In particular, Taganrog specialists designed a new aerial which is 11.5 m in diameter and installed it on the aircraft. This aerial is larger than the one used with the Russian version of the A-50 system

Nov 1, 2000 FT
The Deputy Prime Minister, Mr. Ilya Klebanov, who flew to Beijing on Monday to prepare Mr. Kasyanov’s visit, confirmed that Russia would deliver some A-50 airborne early-warning radar systems, Russian equivalent of U.S. AWACs, to China. He did not say how many flying radars would be supplied, but newspapers said Russia would first lease out two A-50s equipped with basic Shmel radars and use the payment to finance the manufacture of the more advanced Shmel-2 radars to be installed on at least five A-50E planes China wants to buy. Each A-50E is expected to be priced between $180 to $200 millions

Typhoon has a 750 nm combat radius. Are you telling me flying 375 nm is not enough for it to reach the required height for supercruise?

750NM combat radius on internal fuel?. Even Rafale does not have it and is lighter weight and economical engines.

because Typhoon already uses composite extensively (to the tune of 40%) and it sure didn’t reduce its weight by 25%

and what will be the empty weight without those 40% composites and useing CRTs and 700KG weigh of radar.

are you talking about the single seated or twin seated su-35?

there is no such thing as twin seat new Su-35. there is reason for TWO large MFI cocpkit.

you say this all the time, but I keep telling you. who order them? how many Su-34 is there? how many Tu-334? all order is very small and is vaporware, you do not see it come out even if Russian say they want to buy it. when it happen it can happen, but it do not happen. you rely too much on these products that is not being ordered in big number, or product that is just prototype.

they will continue to build Su-34 at rate of 8 to 10 per year untill 2015.
here is about TU-334. and there is another 100 orders for Sukhoi RRJ. and other Tupoleve and Ilyushin is addition to. they have now more orders than China assemble for foreign aircraft. Russian President travels in his on airplane and but not Chinese.

http://www.royfc.com/acft_news_old_nov3.html#23nov
OAO Tupolev has entered into contracts with seven airlines for the delivery of 55 Tu-334 airplanes According to him, there are letters of intent from 24 airlines to obtain another 297 airplanes

even they make specials.

Kazan’ Helicopter Plant Manufacturing Two VIP Mi-17 Helicopters for Venezuela’s President, Hugo Chavez

((In addition, the helicopters will be equipped with anti-aircraft missile defense systems.))

No, the pay is not bad like you say. it is not high compare to westerner, but the chinese who work for western companies is usually from the country side. you may think it is poor, but they make more money there than in country side.. most go to work for them on their own, not by force. working hard everyday in these companies is still better than working hard in the farm, but you westerner do not understand life in the country side to see how hard it is.

but it does not make them richer than Russian farmer. Russia grain production is 85 million tonnes. which is roughly 1/4 of china but with 1/10 population.

cannot use this logic. per capita income is come from Populatoin / GDP, it is not most ackurate way to measure income of the people. in Russia it may look better than China but in Russia income is very unequal. alot of money is in hand of oil business men, Russian-Jewish people, etc. You go to middle of Russia, people there still live old house.

most of natural resources are own by Russian government since u say they make money out of natural resources or u think russian government is Jew.

I am not saying China is not like that, China sitll have big gap. BUT EVEN IF 90% OF CHINESE PEOPLE IS POOR, THEN 10% IS GOOD. 10% OF CHINESE POPULATION IS THE SAME SIZE AS ENTIRE RUSSIA POPULATION!!!
even just 10% it is bigger than all European country and same size as Russia population!

that is not true. the number of cars sold in China is the same as in russia. so it seems it is more imbalance in ur china.

but you people do not understand so i put picture

u dont understand. thats u put useless pictures. whats the difference between skyskrapers of Middleast/Europe/China?. some are build with oil money and some are build with trading money.
Its good that European cities has historical outlook.

now this one Vladistovok, most important city in Russian Siberia (but used to belong to China)

which part of history is that? and do u know entire western China belongs to Muslims and they should be part of Central Asian republics. thats why russia has troops there and support those governments. including the Space tracking station of Okno in tajikistan. u dont have anything there.

and i prove you wrong too
u see right here
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/rs.html#Econ
“Oil, natural gas, metals, and timber account for more than 80% of exports, leaving the country vulnerable to swings in world prices“

do u think every country lives on Exports? they have nothing else to do internally.

Su-33, they do not sell. tu-204, small customer. ENgine for China? not any more in future if WS-10 succeed. and all the other stuff you and Mig, and flex throw in, it do not change that 80% of Russia economy rely on raw resource and oil. the thing you use for proof cannot be use because all of you do not use percent. it is only small percent of Russia economy and they only sell small number.

and 100 % of World economy depends on Natural resources so?. ur ships with manufacture goods will remain in the port without OIL

i do not say China do not use Russian weapon, they use it alot before, but now they getting better and do not need to buy much Russian anymore, that is fact.

how it become fact?. when ur country has clearly signed a deal with Russia that not to tell every thing to the media. It seems u are hiding from the world

I do not know why 3-4 of you go against me and say I am bashing Russia. I just say that their old airplane is good but now they are behind, but you keep challenging me and do not even present proofs, you even attack my english and one guy attack my person. I hope this is all the proofs you need, it is not fair i have to put more time to show you why your logic is wrong because you do not realize the reality.

we realize reality. it is u that lives in unreal world.

i do not know what your problem is.
China try buy AWAC from Israel but US do not allow
so China make their own. China do not want Russian one when they offer. that is reality. how come you do not like this so much?

u cannot put the radar dish on IL-76 without Ilyushin/Beriev Participation. Even Israelis cant do it. So ur AWACS is not indigenous to begin with.