star49Here we go again…Do you realize that you’re talking about US? #1 economy in the world? The one with a 13,000 billion GDP? While huge in absolute number (by the way, the figure is 8.5 trillion!) the US debt as percentage of GDP (64.7%) is 35th in the world! One clue: Japan debt is 160 % of its GDP!
And if you think that a few dozens of billion thanks to the recent obscene levels of crude oil prices will solve overnight the problems of Russian economy and allow them to build something even remotely comparable to Raptor, you’re dreaming…
They already claimed Su-34 as 5th generation with no equal anywhere in the world.with practically immune from all kind of missiles by jamming and destroying missiles in any direction. and can simultaneously destroy 10 ground targets. Infact there own DM has put 1 Su-34 as better than 1 dozen flankers.
so if these claims are not in english magazine it does not mean that those claims do not exist or have less credibility.
and there economy is practically immune from middleastern priced Oil and asian borrowing that is its greatest strength.
star49what about these claims now. modern crusie missile is stealth by itself.
http://www.royfc.com/news/mar/2806mar01.html
The secret of the elegant aircraft’s invisibility worth billions of rubles is simple at first glance. The “Sushka” is very aptly painted – blue and turquoise hues of irregular ovals. But in the event, this airplane is a difficult target, not only for human eyes, but also for radars. In the terrain following regime, it makes a blip on a radar screen which is comparable to the blip from a cruise missile. That is, it turns almost invisible, even less detectable than the American “stealth.”And yesterday was a holiday at Akhtubinsk. The lead airman in the test of the Su-34, he is the chief of the flight test center, Radik Abrarovich Bariev, returned from Moscow where he personally received the hero’s star from the hand of the president. Colonel Bariev had made a unique missile launch – a weapon was used from a fighter for the first time in the world during extreme maneuvers ((V REZHIME SVERKHMANEVRENNOSTI)). In a sense, this is a new page in the history of aviation. Up to this moment, all fighters possessing the capability to change engine thrust vector in flight was only during aerobatics. Now they are real airborne soldiers.
star49.
This is still assuming all must go according to plan. JSF also used a lot of proven technology from the F-22 to save money, yet it still encountered problems like weight gain. If nations with advanced aerospace industry like US and France sometimes don’t get what they want, I don’t see why it’s “obvious” China must have all perfect development and succeed with all experimental technologies without any possibility of setbacks.
think about single engine vs twin engine.
u can afford weight increase with twin engine fighter because of excess thrust. JSF is in no way inferior to F-22 in weopon load and range i think. alot difficult to accomplish with smaller airframe and single engine. development of two single engine fighters especially when later is inferior to former is alot easier.
star49I think there is 20 GE engines in order for LCA but there is no evidence of delivery yet.
star49I never stated that nor do I believe that the Russians can’t make a sub quieter than Agosta, but a 90s kilo (or even a 2006 kilo) is not quieter than Agosta.
Ur spreading beliefs without any evidence. Malaysia didnot order Agosta in Year 2000 despite Pak efforts. PLAN ordered Kilo in 2002.(9 year after PN order agosta)
the latest Kilo in 2006 is from Algeria. More advanced than anything before. No country on this planet is going to order new agosta in 2006. agosta is at best 80s technology thats why French gave so cheap TOT. In fact Global security has put Kilo among the quietest submarines in the world. IN order for scorpene may have PLAN in mind because they have same access to technology.
getting relative accoustic readings should be easier than getting exact accoustic readings. And secondly, the Russians aren’t like the Americans who have their MPAs buzzing around different oceans tracking submarines. The Americans got a lot more data on the accoustic readings of submarines.
so what americans are looking for? Russian subs or made with Russian technology. so do u think Russian MPA cannot practice on there own Sub which are built by separate design bureaus.
I think the fact that BR put Sea Dragon not satisfying IN for tu-142 is plenty of evidence.
BR does not make decision for IN.
star49Says right there that he thinks the F-35 budget is 10 billion.
Shows right there that he has no clue of what the F-35 actually costs right now.
He claimed that $10 billion was the budget, not that he thought it could be done for $10 billion. He was stating what he thought was a fact, and he was off by about $35 billion. He may be a designer, but he better not be their accountant.
he gave interview in 2005 and he may basing figures on OLD data when JSF was first concieved as his putting $40m fly away costs. even F-22 was initially very cheap from early 90s. For them cost is constant figure like putting the same fly away cost for Fifth generation fighter as early 90s Flanker.
star49The export version of Novella ( i.e. Sea Dragon ) is slightly Downgraded , Pit had posted some information on Novella system which from memory will be used by Russian Navy for its newer/upgraded ASW platform , Can track many more number of targets ( subsurface and surface ) and can communicate with much larger number of sonobouoys
The IN has been facing some problems operationalising its new Sea Dragon , and dosent seems to be very happy with SD performance and is looking at Boeing to fulfill/replace 142M.
I would like to think the P-3C is a better ASW platform than the IL-38SD
If IN is not satisfied with Sea dragon it does not mean that is going to accept P-3C (just like IAF will not accept standard F-16block 52) thats why it is looking at P-8. and operationalitising problems does not equal to lack of technical ability.
and in no way shows direct comparision between the two.
star49yak-141, whatever happened to that, hmm, you can fill the blanks.
IF there operational it does not meant that research behind them is lost or they cannot estimate the cost of better versions.
You are basically going from Yak-38, a plane that can take off and maybe fly a few circles around the carrier to F-35B, a supersonic jet, that is stealth, capable of firing the latest missiles/PGMs and can actually carry out real missions with payload.
Sure, he really knows.
It is better to create long range land fighters or deck figters. STOVL role is better left for attack helicopters. After all i cannot see them operating independently against major airforce.
star49USN put a lot more resources into this. And they actually practice against modern SSKs like Gotland and Collins just so that they can improve their ASW suite. Russian commercial processors/technologies? They are really nothing to talk about. They are even behind China in those areas
it is true that Russia hasnt been successful in commercialization of there scientific knowledge but it does not mean that arent the largest source of theoretical and design knowledge to west. West cannot produce its own scientist it has to import higher level for eastern europe and lowe level from Asia. and i bet they have in house solutions for there military projects.
http://www.intel.com/technology/techresearch/research/rs08041.htm
Some of the engineers include Boris Babayan, Alexander Kim and Ivan Bolozov, said to be the key architects of 64-bit processors. Their Elbrus E2K processor was designed to compete with the Intel® Itanium® processor and Sun Microsystems Inc. SPARC line. This technology expertise enhances Intel’s already strong product innovation prowess in the 64-bit and server domain.
I don’t care about what’s provided to Pak. I’m arguing P-3C ASW suite against sea dragon in general. Is there anybody non-Pakistani here who actually have the illusion that PN has a chance of surviving against IN?
On what basis u are arguing this? There hasnt been competition between them to give any conclusion which one is better. I will tend to think export version of Sea dragon to be better than export version of P-3C after all IN has paid its own money and is quite expensive.
star49well, considering the only VSTOL fighter that the Russians ever deployed to service was the almighty Yak-38 and how much money the Americans probably are spending on developing F-35B and the capability gap between them. He really should know what the cost of R&D should be, lol.
Indeed he knows how much cost rise it will be with STOL version R&D.
These people dont make statments without substance. There will be multiple variants of 5th generation fighter like Naval.
Yakovlev design bureau suspends involvement in 5th generation fighter development
MOSCOW. Sept 19 (Interfax-AVN) – The Yakovlev design bureau has suspended its participation in research, development and tests related to the creation of the fifth-generation fighter.
“This is motivated by changes in technical requirements of the main customer,” Yakovlev Director General Oleg Demchenko told Interfax-Military News Agency on Monday.
He recalled that the bureau until recently was the subcontractor, while the Sukhoi aircraft holding company was the chief developer.
“The Yakovlev design bureau accumulated unique experience in design and tests of STOL planes, such as the Yak-38 and Yak-141, and planned to use this research and technical backlog in creation of the future frontline aircraft,” Demchenko said.
He explained that “very tough requirements to the length of the runway were set” at the stage of pre-design competition, “but today the technical requirements have been changed.”
“During the defense of the conceptual design, the customer’s requirements to keeping take-off and landing short were changed due to a considerable rise in the cost of the project and the entire program,” he said.
Demchenko stressed that “considerable reduction of the take-off and landing run for future attack aircraft remains in the program’s concept, but will be effected some time later.”He did not rule out Yakovlev’s participation in the program in the future, but said that “the company’s involvement in the development of the plane at any stage depends on the chief developer.”
star49Fine however this went into that direction becuse a russian Aviation big wig posted incorrect Finances on the JSF .
Nope. He didnot post inaccurate finances. It is u who is taking his statement out of context. He merely gave opinion that JSF R&D should be around $10B (which is supposedly based on his own analysis of JSF capabilities known to him). so it is irrelevant whether some on actually spend more on it. It is like saying Russian Olympic commitee should be spending the same amount of money on Olympic atheletes to produce the same amount of medal in Olympics as West not considering the size of olympic contingent, kind of sports, Size and diversity of population base.
Russian Inventors Learn to See Invisible Airplane
Leading specialists of the Nizhniy Novgorod Scientific Research Institute of Radio Engineering (NNIIRT) which is headed by the designer, Aleksandr Zachepitskiy, have received a State prize for the creation of the three-dimensional “Nebo-U” radar with a digital phased antenna array, the Privolzh’e Novoe Telegrafnoe Agenststvo is reporting.
The radar is an automated complex which provides all weather control of the airspace at a range of several hundred kilometers.
The “Nebo-U” is able to detect small-size and barely visible targets, including also those built using Stealth technology.
Source: 30.12.03, MiK Information Agency
star49It is a well established fact that there is just about nothing being taken as profit during R and D phase other then from the material sourced and most of the profits ( which is regulated by the govt.) is during manufactering and maintaining and upgrading the jets . The US cont. cannot charge as much profit as he likes it is given out by the govt and cannot exceed a percentage . Furthermore how can someone comment a figure of dollars as an opinion when the figure as a fact is open source and one doesnt need to be head of sukhoi to know what the F-35 developmental program is costing or estimated to cost.
I think most of contracts are cost plus basis. but the thing is how to arrive at those costs?. he put his opinion that JSF R&D should be around $10B. he may understand better the worth of aircraft than arm chair generals becasue his himself in charge of that.
star49I was reffering to the F-35 developmental cost of which he is totally wrong!!
he is merely passing his opinion that R&D costs in West should be around 3 times to Russia but he is not taking into account other profits motives and economic conditions over time during r&d.
star49Doesnt know what he’s talking about !!
surely he does not know thats why he is head of Sukhoi. this things should not be that expensive unless u want to generate extraordinary profits for investors.
star49this will put bring it on to rest.
Russians Learn to Shoot Down Stealth Airplanes
The Russian Antey concern has assembled the first air defense missile system in the world with elements of artificial intelligence. As reported in the Russian Federation Ministry of Defense, the developers have succeeded in the creation of a a new generation weapon, analogues of which there are none even in countries which produce PVO systems on highly scientific and technological bases. The missile, while manifesting in itself all the best of the world-reknowned “Tor-M1” system, has been designed for effective combat with precision weapons and aviation systems, which are manufactured using Stealth ((sic)) (SAMOLETY-NEVIDIMKI) technology. The new system belongs to the class of short range air defense systems and is intended for defense of troops on the march and in the forward area, troop, industrial, and civilian objects.
Source: 16.03.01, 911.RU Information Agenc
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